Sense and nonsense of fender tags

[cuda hunter]

Thank you.

I find it fascinating as to how little the Windsor plant coded on tags until part way through the 69 model year.

Do you have an opinion as to why the difference?

 

[69CoronetRT]

Do you have an opinion as to why the difference?

No.

To me, it's fascinating that an industry that wants consistency of 'sameness' across all products and services leaves the coding of tags to each plant. I think it's curious that after the 68 model year, plants got to determine the format of the tag as well as the how and when of the coding.

 

[cuda hunter]

It is very interesting. Definitely goes against greater business organization.
I should have known not to ask for an "opinion".
Facts only!

 

[68PK21 440.6bbl]

Thanks, but if you have some stuff off 1974-1977 (Gran) Furys, you'd trigger my curiosity.

I admit that the 1971 PE41's transmission and engine are a rare sight on C-body fender tags.

I just went through my picture batch of 74/77 not too many, I guess those that are selling them aren't in the realm of the collector/classic market yet.
But I'll toss'em up here for ya, some maybe dups/repeats but quite a few go back to the 2016 to 2012 years (before I joined here) of CL & Ebay AD's so maybe something new for ya. (see how this works)

Part 2 next
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[68PK21 440.6bbl]

Final 3 with one little body Fury big tag recent find I'd thought I'd throw in for the wagon crowd. (this is all I got)

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[PeugFra]

Thanks, that's a nice set of fender tags and door stickers! Some are new to me , some I already knew. Apparently we are on the same internet.

PH23M6D179235 was first put into service July, 1976. In 2016 it was for sale in Tampa, Florida, as ghost ads (one, two) still show. Then in 2017 it got to Germany by way of Holland, where a sporty shop lowered the old man's car. By April 2019 the Gran Fury was sold, the asking price at the time being 14,990 euro.

PH41U7D183414 is one of a whole bunch of fleet cars in the lower 183 VIN range. Comparing with similar fender tags led me to this fairly reliable transcription:

S41 END
M15 M25 N41 N94 P39
A38 F43 F58 G11 G63 H51
KY4 U 222 Y39 K5X
KY4 E3Y3 KY4 114 K07361
E86 D36 PH41 U7D 183414

E86 = 440 8 Cyl - 4 Bbl [HP]
D36 = A727 A/Trans

KY4 = Body Color: Golden Fawn
E3Y3 = Cloth-and-Vinyl Split-Back Bench Seat w/Folding Center Armrest, Gold
114 = Scheduled Production Date: January, 14 [1977]
K07361 = Police Car Order 07361

KY4 = Roof Color: Golden Fawn
U = US Market
222 = three heat shields left, three heat shields right [cfr. N41, E86]
Y39 = Special Order
K5X = Body Side Vinyl Moulding, Black Insert

A38 = Police Pkg
F43 = Reinf For Plr S/Lites [standard on police cars]
F58 = Rr C/M Reinf Or Welds [standard on police cars]
G11 = Tinted Glass - All
G63 = Mirror - Remote Control - Right
H51 = Air Conditioning - Manual Control

M15 = Upper Door Frame Mouldings [it's a Brougham!]
M25 = Sill Moulding [it's a Brougham!]
N41 = Dual Exhaust [cfr. E86]
N94 = ESA w/Catalyst
P39 = [power something, only seen on some 1977 Gran Fury police cars]

S41 = Rear Sway Bar [standard on police cars]

A comfy, yet high-performance police car.

 

[PeugFra]

P39 = [power something, only seen on some 1977 Gran Fury police cars]

Actually, the police cars that have this P39 code are both ex North Carolina State Highway Patrol. An interior pic of the passenger side door shows a control where you expect the power window control to be:

A pic from the driver side door shows same, on another ex NCSHP car, restored in NY colors:

Yet, the broadcast sheet for this car lacks the P31 code for power windows, but does contain that pesty P39 code (you have to enlarge the picture a bit):

So P39 may be in an as yet undefined relation to power windows.

Those ex NCSHP fender tags actually contain two undocumented codes, M39 and P39. Undocumented in the sense that they are not listed on the back of the 1977 broadcast sheet. Possibly because they indicate special police items?

The comfy KY4-colored police car discussed above that is the third car to have P39, was offered as a used car in Fuquay-Varina, NC. A coincidence?

 

[PeugFra]

The KY4 colored Gran Fury was probably the unmarked police car discussed here. Very interesting pics:

As you can see, this P39-code car also has power window controls. Let's call 'em "Police Power Windows" until something better comes up.

 

[69CoronetRT]

So P39 may be in an as yet undefined relation to power windows.

Are you accepting reasonable guesses yet?

 

[PeugFra]

Are you accepting reasonable guesses yet?

I'm all ears!

 

[69CoronetRT]

I'm all ears!

Have we seen pictures of the window controls in the back seat?

My WAG... The back windows were non functional or there was an override switch somewhere to prevent people in the back seat (suspects/prisoners) from operating the windows. P39= 'special window wiring'

 

[PeugFra]

Excellent idea! Although it doesn't say anything about wiring, there IS a picture of a back door interior:

Admittedly this is on the restored NCSHP > NYSP car (PH41U7D185042), but the lower panel doesn't look like it was tinkered with. While I'm throwing around abbreviations, what is a WAG?

I can only hope that @68PK21 440.6bbl has pictures of the other two cars (PH41U7D183414, PH41U7D223108).

The 1977 Plymouth Police sales brochure has a page on Special Order items, but of course nothing on power windows.

 

[68PK21 440.6bbl]

Back then as on my 1977 PK41's they just disconnected the door pull rod and left the unlock button active as you couldn't open the door anyway with the disconnected door pull, (edit) manual window crank was still there I don't remember having to install them, people were a little more well mannered back then towards cops, I remember getting 'hooked up' after blowing through a local radar trap at 100+ and had another warrant for a unpaid/appear State Police speeding ticket so they had to have the SP come get me, nice guy, cuffed me in front and sat me in the front seat, long over a hour ride to that court/barracks, but he was in a Ford and in the chat I had with him is where I learned that he told me the Plymouth's would do 160mph. Electric windows is another thing, plus today's cages (spitproof panels), window bars, and piss/puke/drug hide, cuff behind the back plastic seats are another challenge. Even the door panels on new squads up for sale need to be replaced if you want a civey DD.
My 77's were before cage rash days<<<< I got a funny story 'bout that. I wouldn't have minded if my 1st 1968 PK21 would've had the roll bar cage as that would of maybe made the car salvageable after I rolled it.

I'll see what those VIN correspond too what car pics I have, but if they were old CL ad's the pic's aren't that high quality or numerous as CL had limits back then.

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[69CoronetRT]

Excellent idea! Although it doesn't say anything about wiring, there IS a picture of a back door interior:
While I'm throwing around abbreviations, what is a WAG?

Wild
***
Guess

 

[HWYCRZR]

"WAG" = Wild *** Guess

 

[68PK21 440.6bbl]

Excellent idea! Although it doesn't say anything about wiring, there IS a picture of a back door interior:

View attachment 466594

Admittedly this is on the restored NCSHP > NYSP car (PH41U7D185042), but the lower panel doesn't look like it was tinkered with. While I'm throwing around abbreviations, what is a WAG?

I can only hope that @68PK21 440.6bbl has pictures of the other two cars (PH41U7D183414, PH41U7D223108).

The 1977 Plymouth Police sales brochure has a page on Special Order items, but of course nothing on power windows.

PH41U7D183414 I take it this is the Fuquay Varina car, pics I got are from 2012/13. Boy you got better eyes than I got, even enlarging I couldn't make out the last 4. But here's all the photos I have of this one (arrrg 10 limit), I was tempted on this one. It was listed first at 5 grand then dropped down to 3.5k but even at that price I considered it as a little too crusty for me

PH41U7D223108 is the NCSP rot box car up on FB recently that I believe I posted up all the pictures of. Look back for the interior shot again, I hit the post pic limit.

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[PeugFra]

The back windows were non functional or there was an override switch somewhere to prevent people in the back seat (suspects/prisoners) from operating the windows. P39= 'special window wiring'

Although it's a very attractive idea and probably correct, it's difficult to get a handle on this. You would expect the override switch around the driver position, on the door, for instance. 1974 Dodge Monaco for the New York State Police had factory power windows also. I haven't seen any tag, so no way of checking for P39 against P31, and the driver side door looks very normal:

 

[MrMoparCHP]

I would assume if an agency didn't want rear door window or lock controls in the rear seat they would just disconnect the controls, yet the power windows need the switch in place for the other switch to work, so who knows?


Alan

 

[patrick66]

They could've simply hot-wired the rear door switches so that the front master bank would work, but the button on the rear doors would be left inoperative.

 

[MrMoparCHP]

They could've simply hot-wired the rear door switches so that the front master bank would work, but the button on the rear doors would be left inoperative.

Something like that most likely would have been done by the agency and not the factory.
CHP for some reason wanted the turn signals to work with the key off, CHP modified it when outfitting the cars. They also unplugged the dome light switches in the door jam.


Alan