rust

[Blish]

hey yall! I have some "pinhole" rust spots at the seam where the lower c pilar meets the truck deck on my car. dont know exactly how to describe the location but its on both sides, the driver side had a bunch of rust scales on it and i wire wheeled them off, revealed about 12-15 little holes and the passenger side has like 3-5 holes. pics tomorrow...

my question is how do i fix this? i was thinking of just welding a peice of sheet metal behind it but its in the bottom corners of the metal where the rear window seam is too, so im not too sure. id fill it in with weld if my welding experience hadnt taught me how easy it is to blow out an old rusty hole.

thanks! -Paul

 

[Blish]

i highlited the area i was trying to describe if that helps. its infected that seam there. im not about to cut the entire back of the panel off to fix a minor spot, again was thingking sheet metal under and spread some bondo over, or maybe i could even get away with just spreading bondo over it... thoughts or better ideas?

-paul

 

[saforwardlook]

View attachment 499160

i highlited the area i was trying to describe if that helps. its infected that seam there. im not about to cut the entire back of the panel off to fix a minor spot, again was thingking sheet metal under and spread some bondo over, or maybe i could even get away with just spreading bondo over it... thoughts or better ideas?

-paul

Personally, I would choose to do the repair correctly but if you are going to do what you are describing, I would forget the bondo, clean out any rust scale or pinholes until clean metal is achieved, put in a piece of patch metal on the underside of the panel using JB Weld to secure it in place and then use JB Weld to cover the holes on the top side. Bondo absorbs moisture and will generally not be a stable surface to remain flat when paint touch up is applied (if, for example, the underside is not completely sealed from moisture and it penetrates the underside patched area - I had this happen to a car that had been repaired as described with bondo and the underside over time absorbed the moisture and the top area bulged upward). JB Weld will secure the support panel (you definitely do not want to weld in that area with the window in place and for other reasons). Then seal the whole top area against any moisture with JB Weld as well and you can also sand it down to make a surface that is nice and flat and then prime it and paint it. Such a repair would likely last the remaining life of the vehicle just fine.

 

[Blish]

Personally, I would choose to do the repair correctly but if you are going to do what you are describing, I would forget the bondo, clean out any rust scale or pinholes until clean metal is achieved, put in a piece of patch metal on the underside of the panel using JB Weld to secure it in place and then use JB Weld to cover the holes on the top side. Bondo absorbs moisture and will generally not be a stable surface to remain flat when paint touch up is applied. JB Weld will secure the support panel (you definitely do not want to weld in that area with the window in place and for other reasons. Then seal the whole area against any moisture with JB Weld and you can also sand it down to make a surface that is nice and flat and then prime it and paint it.

the window is out right now as i am in the process of replacing the seal. figured id adess the rust whit eit was out as it would make it alot easier. i wire brushed it all down to bare metal. i know i should probably cut it out and replace it but im not skilled enough to repair that seam, and the vynil top is going to cover it.

i like the jb weld idea, i dunno why i didnt think of that. i havent had the greatest experiances with it on my f100, but then again i was 15 then, im coming on 18 now...

pics tomorrow will probably clarify alot of things like where certain parts are, and the condition of everything.

 

[Blish]

Personally, I would choose to do the repair correctly but if you are going to do what you are describing, I would forget the bondo, clean out any rust scale or pinholes until clean metal is achieved, put in a piece of patch metal on the underside of the panel using JB Weld to secure it in place and then use JB Weld to cover the holes on the top side. Bondo absorbs moisture and will generally not be a stable surface to remain flat when paint touch up is applied. JB Weld will secure the support panel (you definitely do not want to weld in that area with the window in place and for other reasons. Then seal the whole area against any moisture with JB Weld and you can also sand it down to make a surface that is nice and flat and then prime it and paint it.

i have a freind who recommended i use belzona. he repaired the fuel tank on his dodge truck with it. he says they use it at chemical pants to repair cracks in the parts on the machine. duct tape under the bottom, spread it, itll sink down some but let it cure 24 hrs, come back, put some more over the top, remove the duct tape, let that cure 24 hours... he says you have to grind it to remove it it becomes as hard as metal and sometimes outlives the part the repair was put on.

thoughts on this? its an industrial bondo basically but it doesnt soak moisture and apparently you have so use a grinding disc to get it off, which i like that idea because if i put too much on i have a side grinder and a bunch of grinding discs left over from my f100 project...

the website claims its used in a variety of industrial applications, offsore equipment, ships, trains, underwater stuff, and is a long term repair for theese types of equipment. i linked the website.

Belzona 1212 Surface tolerant epoxy

 

[1970FuryConv]

Personally, I would choose to do the repair correctly but if you are going to do what you are describing, I would forget the bondo, clean out any rust scale or pinholes until clean metal is achieved, put in a piece of patch metal on the underside of the panel using JB Weld to secure it in place and then use JB Weld to cover the holes on the top side. Bondo absorbs moisture and will generally not be a stable surface to remain flat when paint touch up is applied. JB Weld will secure the support panel (you definitely do not want to weld in that area with the window in place and for other reasons. Then seal the whole area against any moisture with JB Weld and you can also sand it down to make a surface that is nice and flat and then prime it and paint it.

Good idea! I'll keep in mind for quick repairs.

 

[saforwardlook]

i have a freind who recommended i use belzona. he repaired the fuel tank on his dodge truck with it. he says they use it at chemical pants to repair cracks in the parts on the machine. duct tape under the bottom, spread it, itll sink down some but let it cure 24 hrs, come back, put some more over the top, remove the duct tape, let that cure 24 hours... he says you have to grind it to remove it it becomes as hard as metal and sometimes outlives the part the repair was put on.

thoughts on this? its an industrial bondo basically but it doesnt soak moisture and apparently you have so use a grinding disc to get it off, which i like that idea because if i put too much on i have a side grinder and a bunch of grinding discs left over from my f100 project...

the website claims its used in a variety of industrial applications, offsore equipment, ships, trains, underwater stuff, and is a long term repair for theese types of equipment. i linked the website.

Belzona 1212 Surface tolerant epoxy

I have not heard of the above product before but I am aware that in numerous comparison tests among epoxy adhesives, JB Weld consistently comes out on top as the strongest, longest lasting such product commonly available at reasonable cost. Belzona may also be good, but I have never heard of it before nor seen a single comparison test with it among the candidates.

Best wishes.................

 

[65sporty]

I would treat the rusty area with a rust converter also

 

[Big_John]

Cut it out, weld new metal in.

That's the ONLY way that it won't come back to haunt you in a year or two. Living where cars rust, I've seen all sorts of Mickey Mouse rust repairs (like Bondo and epoxy) and they never last.

 

[Blish]

I have not heard of the above product before but I am aware that in numerous comparison tests among epoxy adhesives, JB Weld consistently comes out on top as the strongest, longest lasting such product commonly available at reasonable cost. Belzona may also be good, but I have never heard of it before nor seen a single comparison test with it among the candidates.

Best wishes.................

well i was thinking since its a industrial epoxy/bondo... you cant compare whats used on a marine pump to what you can buy at a parts store... he says he can get me a whole container of it. its actually 2 that you mix on a platter.

ill look into and research both but i cant for too long i need the car by January 4th.

 

[Blish]

I would treat the rusty area with a rust converter also

yes i do plan to use a rust inhibitor of some sort to stop it

 

[Blish]

Cut it out, weld new metal in.

That's the ONLY way that it won't come back to haunt you in a year or two. Living where cars rust, I've seen all sorts of Mickey Mouse rust repairs (like Bondo and epoxy) and they never last.

well being in south carolina... the car is mostly rust free. you couldnt fit a dime in any of the holes, maybe the fat end of aa thumb tack if you forced it. we dont have all the rust issues yall do up there, last snow storm was almost 10 years ago now... we dont use salt on our roads. i dont have the tools or knowledge to fix metal on a crease like that. just a basic crappy welder and basic skill. i wire brushed it all. im posting pictures here in a minute.

 

[Big_John]

well being in south carolina... the car is mostly rust free. you couldnt fit a dime in any of the holes, maybe the fat end of aa thumb tack if you forced it. we dont have all the rust issues yall do up there, last snow storm was almost 10 years ago now... we dont use salt on our roads. i dont have the tools or knowledge to fix metal on a crease like that. just a basic crappy welder and basic skill. i wire brushed it all. im posting pictures here in a minute.

Once it starts, if it isn't cut out, it's going to come back.

I've seen a lot of cars "repaired" that never saw snow or even rain again... and the "repair" failed. It looks good for a while (long enough to sell the car) Usually, the "repair" has made things worse and now the real fix means a lot more work and, of course, the work and money already done is down the drain.

But, what do I know? It's your car...

 

[Blish]

Once it starts, if it isn't cut out, it's going to come back.

I've seen a lot of cars "repaired" that never saw snow or even rain again... and the "repair" failed. It looks good for a while (long enough to sell the car) Usually, the "repair" has made things worse and now the real fix means a lot more work and, of course, the work and money already done is down the drain.

But, what do I know? It's your car...

if i had the money id pay a pro to do it. but im on about a $1500 budget that has to cover the top for this car (about 500 bucks or more) and then has to fix the air conditioning, and get me a rear axle for my f100, with a 4 link and bags. first priority rn is this car as the f100 still is in a million pieces.

being in the lower corner of the window frame, and along the seam on the deck... i dont know how to fix that. i have no tools to bend metal, no knowledge on where to bend it, or how to align it perfect. its going to get sealed back off with a vynil top anyways. i dont know if thats going to protect it but the vynil will cover everything as it extends over some of the rust.

i do know how to "restore" it or atleast i have the idea, but i can always come back and fix it right when i have time and knowledge.

 

[saforwardlook]

It is certainly possible to repair an area to be just like factory again, but if one thinks about the troughs around many of the windows (especially around the rear window) where water/moisture accumulates and just sits there for long periods of time and in which holes are drilled in the sheet metal through which clips are attached (sometimes the factory added dum dum sealant to keep water out - never worked well for very long) to hold down the trim, this is a perfect set up for rust failure (think also of vinyl roofs applied to bare metal to which no primer or paint was applied too). I personally believe if an area is carefully and properly sealed off from moisture in the first place and a repair is made with all the metal completely clean that can't collect moisture/water, a repair with JB Weld (no bondo) done carefully and thoughtfully could last even longer than the factory poor design in the first place. To me at least, one has to think carefully about how such a repair is done, and if done well, could very well last longer than the factory poor designs in the first place.

I am not going to generalize about such repairs because it all depends on how well everything is thought out and how carefully and thoroughly that repaired area is completely sealed from the environment. I also don't believe on an old driver quality vehicle that one is going to resort to pulling out most of the interior including the headliner, package tray or other interior parts including glass to make a minor repair by doing welding. It would end up costing more than the whole car is likely worth.

When I actually am restoring a car, I will fix the poorly designed areas that cause rust in the first place and/or cut out the rusted area and weld in a new clean piece in order to ensure it never happens again under my ownership and beyond. I will never let a car I care about sit outside unless covered and since I live out west where the air is generally pretty dry, that usually works well. In other areas of the country where it is continuously wet or the humidity is high much of the time, I would then always keep my cars in an enclosed building. I would also minimize driving my car in bad weather especially when salt is used to deal with ice.

 

[Blish]

It is certainly possible to repair an area to be just like factory again, but if one thinks about the troughs around many of the windows (especially around the rear window) where water/moisture accumulates and just sits there for long periods of time and in which holes are drilled in the sheet metal through which clips are attached (sometimes the factory added dum dum sealant to keep water out - never worked well for very long) to hold down the trim, this is a perfect set up for rust failure (think also of vinyl roofs applied to bare metal to which no primer or paint was applied too). I personally believe if an area is carefully and properly sealed off from moisture in the first place and a repair is made with all the metal completely clean that can't collect moisture/water, a repair with JB Weld (no bondo) done carefully and thoughtfully could last even longer than the factory poor design in the first place. To me at least, one has to think carefully about how such a repair is done, and if done well, could very well last longer than the factory poor designs in the first place.

I am not going to generalize about such repairs because it all depends on how well everything is thought out and how carefully and thoroughly that repaired area is completely sealed from the environment. I also don't believe on an old driver quality vehicle that one is going to resort to pulling out most of the interior including the headliner, package tray or other interior parts including glass to make a minor repair by doing welding. It would end up costing more than the whole car is likely worth.

When I actually am restoring a car, I will fix the poorly designed areas that cause rust in the first place and/or cut out the rusted area and weld in a new clean piece in order to ensure it never happens again under my ownership and beyond. I will never let a car I care about sit outside unless covered and since I live out west where the air is generally pretty dry, that usually works well. In other areas of the country where it is continuously wet or the humidity is high much of the time, I would then always keep my cars in an enclosed building. I would also minimize driving my car in bad weather especially when salt is used to deal with ice.

This was a excellent write up. I am including some pictures. I was wrong... the entire fix will be covered with a vynil top.

 

[Blish]

 

[david hill]

View attachment 499939 View attachment 499940 View attachment 499941 View attachment 499942

Although late to the conversation I 100% agree w/ Big John, unless you cut out the rust It will come back bigger and worst than it was before. the lower channel in the back glass is notorious for rust out. The rear class reveal trim traps fine dirt there and trap moisture. Left unattended rust areas develop. the same will happen at the inside bottom of the doors or deck lids

 

[Samplingman]

Having just struggled with the Dutch panel repair on my project, I can appreciate the hesitation on a "proper" repair. Keep in mind that underneath each of those pinholes is rust that is 4 times the size. If you are not skilled with the welder, that can damage the surrounding repair area even worse.

Here is what I would do, and of course this is just my 2 cents, and you are not going for a concourse restoration. Crawl into the trunk (wear a mask) and best you can brush as much of the rust off as you can in those areas. They will be hard to reach, but you should still be able to get to them. Then, liberally spray your favorite rust converter (I used the Rusoleum brand) on as much of the visible rust as possible. Next, use an encapsulator like POR15 (I know, a lot of guys hate that stuff, but it works). Brush it on and while it is still wet, apply small patches of fiberglass mat to the under side of the holes. Reapply the POR15 then treat the whole area with a liberal coat of Rustoleum gloss black. That will dry hard as a rock, and most-likely never rust again in your lifetime. Finish off the top side with your favorite bondo (I use a product called All-Metal) and paint before putting the vinyl top back on. Total supplies should cost you no more than $75, and work time no more than a Saturday.

 

[Blish]

Having just struggled with the Dutch panel repair on my project, I can appreciate the hesitation on a "proper" repair. Keep in mind that underneath each of those pinholes is rust that is 4 times the size. If you are not skilled with the welder, that can damage the surrounding repair area even worse.

Here is what I would do, and of course this is just my 2 cents, and you are not going for a concourse restoration. Crawl into the trunk (wear a mask) and best you can brush as much of the rust off as you can in those areas. They will be hard to reach, but you should still be able to get to them. Then, liberally spray your favorite rust converter (I used the Rusoleum brand) on as much of the visible rust as possible. Next, use an encapsulator like POR15 (I know, a lot of guys hate that stuff, but it works). Brush it on and while it is still wet, apply small patches of fiberglass mat to the under side of the holes. Reapply the POR15 then treat the whole area with a liberal coat of Rustoleum gloss black. That will dry hard as a rock, and most-likely never rust again in your lifetime. Finish off the top side with your favorite bondo (I use a product called All-Metal) and paint before putting the vinyl top back on. Total supplies should cost you no more than $75, and work time no more than a Saturday.

I would brush the rust underneath... if there was any visible rust to brush. I hit it with the wire wheel to make sure but its literally just solid metal,, and the top layer is rusting now.. those are holes i knocked out with the wheel, the metal under is really solid actually.

But ill consider your fix most definitely for sure!