has any body built a 451?

[flyinbrick68]

Ive Got ThE Motor Out Of The 72 And After The Machinist LOoked At The Crank It Was Trashed So I Thought Why Not Build A 451 Ive Got An Ol 413 Crank TO Cut Down So Well See Any Recommendations On How TO Build It?

 

[Supershafts]

Use the 400 rod with that crank, use the best lightest piston you can, if you want more than have that crank offset ground and all the counters and cut the rod journal down to 2.1 use a 6.5" rod and get the big Indy heads

 

[heyoldguy]

I had my 440 crank turned down .125" in radius on the counter weights and the mains cut to 400 journal size. I used a Scat H-beam 6.760 rod of stock 383/400 journal size and went with a Ross 99495 flat top piston, 452 heads were used and we came out to 9.7:1 compression.

 

[flyinbrick68]

SoundS Right About What I'm.Trying To Achieve I Think I'm Going To Try And Stay Conservative On The Cam For Now And Go With Something AroundThe 268 60303 Vodoo Cam... Maybe A Bit Smaller To Keep The Torque Down In The Rpm Range... Thought about A Hughes 2328 Cam... Or Possibly A Crower... Ill Be Using 2.08 1.8 Milodon Valves In The Heads....Low To Mid RPm Torque Is More Important Than HigH Rpm Hp As This Will Be A Cruiser.... I Was Recommended A 224 234 Cam From Howards.... Any Thoughts? Id Like To Keep A Non Adjustable Valvetrain If I Could....

 

[heyoldguy]

SoundS Right About What I'm.Trying To Achieve I Think I'm Going To Try And Stay Conservative On The Cam For Now And Go With Something AroundThe 268 60303 Vodoo Cam... Maybe A Bit Smaller To Keep The Torque Down In The Rpm Range... Thought about A Hughes 2328 Cam... Or Possibly A Crower... Ill Be Using 2.08 1.8 Milodon Valves In The Heads....Low To Mid RPm Torque Is More Important Than HigH Rpm Hp As This Will Be A Cruiser.... I Was Recommended A 224 234 Cam From Howards.... Any Thoughts? Id Like To Keep A Non Adjustable Valvetrain If I Could....

I'd be curious as to why you said, "Ill Be Using 2.08 1.8 Milodon Valves In The Heads...." and then immediately after, "Low To Mid RPm Torque Is More Important Than HigH Rpm Hp As This Will Be A Cruiser." Are they tied together in your mind?

I'd be all over the Howards cam if you have the heads prepared for that much lift. But I would also be using adjustable rocker arms with that cam. In fact, with all the cams you've listed I'd be using adjustable rockers.

 

[flyinbrick68]

Well Im Still Learning Maybe I've Misread Some Info On The Use Of 1.81 Valves And A Measurable Torque Gain Over Using Stock 1.74 ValveS That's Quite Possible. Im Not Against Adjustable Rockers By Any MeaNs Was HopIng To Keep My Budget Down A Bit. Seems LiKe Id Have To Get A Cam With A Lot LESs Lift To Use Stamped Rockers. And I Dont Have Access To A Flow Bench BuT Im Always Willing TO Learn And I Like Getting Satisfaction Being Able TO Work On And Do Things Myself. Any Recommendations On Rocker Arms?

 

[heyoldguy]

Well Im Still Learning Maybe I've Misread Some Info On The Use Of 1.81 Valves And A Measurable Torque Gain Over Using Stock 1.74 ValveS That's Quite Possible. Im Not Against Adjustable Rockers By Any MeaNs Was HopIng To Keep My Budget Down A Bit. Seems LiKe Id Have To Get A Cam With A Lot LESs Lift To Use Stamped Rockers. And I Dont Have Access To A Flow Bench BuT Im Always Willing TO Learn And I Like Getting Satisfaction Being Able TO Work On And Do Things Myself. Any Recommendations On Rocker Arms?

Larger valves and the throats and bowls worked to accommodate them will result in gains at all rpms.

As to rockers, I may not be the one to ask. I wouldn't recommend anything that cost less than $700-$1000, and that isn't in the economy range.

 

[commando1]

I'm reading with interest your replies heyoldguy.
You know your stuff.

 

[flyinbrick68]

Im Thankful You Guys On Here Are Knowledgeable And Are A Voice Of Reason Willing To Steer Me In The Right Direction. I Was Wondering Why THs Howards Cams Have So Mucg MorE Lift In Comparison To Other CamS Besides Being Ground For The 904 lifter. Seems Like They've Got WaY To MucH Lift For WhaT I Need Really

 

[flyinbrick68]

Seems Like If I Want To TaKe Advantage Of ThE Lifters And Use Stamped Rockers Id Have To Keep The Cam At Low Lift. Which Is Prob A GOod Thing With My Iron Heads. The HowaRds Cam I Think Itd Come In To Small At Around 216 Intake 222 eExhaust isnt That Barely Bigger Than A Magnum Cam? Id Think Itd Be To Mild For A 451 BuT Hey Im Still Learning. And I Probably Have A Diff Opinion Of A Cruiser Than Some People. Its Gotta Be Comfortable Enough To Drive On Weekends Putting some Miles On The Highway. able TO Idle In Traffic Without Wanting To Load Up An Die Due To Too Large A cam And ProducE Produce Enough Power aN Torque to Move THe Heavy Withought Me Feeling Like Im DrivinG Something My Grandm Put Around in.

 

[flyinbrick68]

And Maybe Thatl Be Good EnougwH A Modern Version OF The HP Magnum Or 6Pac Cam W The Lift To Utilize The 904 Lifter. Im Not Dead Set Against Using Adjustable Rockers. I Want To Build It Right The FIrst Time Using Quality Parts. I Know I Cant Go To Large W My Heads Im Using And The 3.23 Gears. Its What THe Car Was Born W So Ill Gladly Keep Them As It Was A comfortabE Hwy GeaR The 60 Or So Miles I Was Able To Drive THe Car Before THe Rod Knock Started. once Again Thank You All For The Advice.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

This is all okay but you guys are all over the place. One wants to be on a budget the other wants to put t&d rockers on a stock motor. The whole purpose for 451s out of 400 blocks is to be able to reduce the compression distance and have a lighter piston and be able to rev more after all if your not planning on spinning much past 5000 rpm why not just rebuild a 440 with stock parts (cheap). If you are going to spend that kind of money on pistons and rods and machining the crank, why not just buy a 4.150 stroker kit balanced and ready to go (read good shop/supplier) then have your heads done and ported by a good shop they will still be mismatched for motor but you can always upgrade later, this all blows budget out of water but your the one entertaining all this work for 11 cubic inches and trying to make a truck motor out of it. Tell you what go over to b or e bodies only and post for a WTB a 383 crank, probably get it for next to nothing and the shipping put it in the 400 build it like a 383 magnum motor and just tell everybody its a 451, wayyyy cheaper



I'm not trying to be a smart *** with this it just seems like you are wanting to build a 451 just to spend money and say you did it, the $ per hp is not very good.

 

[heyoldguy]

If someone just wants to build a 451, then the purpose becomes to build a 451.

The questions were,

(1) "Has anyone built a 451?"
(2) "451 Build recommendations?"
(3) "What do you think of these cams?"
(4) "What rocker arms?"

Answers.

(1) Yes.

Examples below.

With our ported factory iron heads, 595 HP, 621 HP, 656 HP, 676 HP, 694 HP.
With our ported Edelbrock RPM heads, 723 HP, 787 HP.
All of them on 91 octane pump gas.

(2) From my experience I choose what I believed to be a good basic starting point for a 451 stroker, 452 heads, 440 crank (the 413 would work just as good), H-beam rods, Ross pistons.

..........also take note of Supershafts good suggestion! He's pretty sharp.

(3) Of the listed cams, I like the Howards.

(4) My ideas will be expensive.

The OP has since speculated on a few things about the 451 construction which I believe have been in the right direction.

I haven't been asked anything else..........AND........

We get paid to design and build engines and port heads.

 

[flyinbrick68]

Thank YoU For All The Help The Crank I Had Lying Around So I Thought Id ASk Questions And Learn Some New Knowledge. I Do INtend To Spin Up The Motor Past 5000 OnCe In A While WE Do Have A Dragstrip Bout 150 MilesAaway And I Should HaW Stated earlier My Budget Was SeT AT 4800 Thanks All. If Nothing ElsE I Figured I Could Build A Stout Short Block And Uprade THe Heads Later On If Time An Budget Allow.

 

[heyoldguy]

Thank YoU For All The Help The Crank I Had Lying Around So I Thought Id ASk Questions And Learn Some New Knowledge. I Do INtend To Spin Up The Motor Past 5000 OnCe In A While WE Do Have A Dragstrip Bout 150 MilesAaway And I Should HaW Stated earlier My Budget Was SeT AT 4800 Thanks All. If Nothing ElsE I Figured I Could Build A Stout Short Block And Uprade THe Heads Later On If Time An Budget Allow.

A man with a budget........very wise!

More 451 reading:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=257568

 

[flyinbrick68]

Yeah I Set AsiDe A ChunK Of Cash FroM Being Dployed TO Afg.ThoughT It Migh Behoove ME Not to Just Go Hog Wild AnD Go All in.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I stand corrected I was under the impression that we were staying on a tighter budget and nothing wrong with building a good short block and upgrading heads later, carry on.

 

[flyinbrick68]

That's The Plan Hopefully With some Forged I Beams Forged Pistons Arp Main studs. Windage Tray 1/2 Hemi Oil Pickup Ect.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Don't forget to radius the pickup passage so that the hemi pick up will be.used to its fullest.

 

[Supershafts]

If you're after tq USE the 400 rod, not that long high rpm rod.

.