'66 t&c

[SF-66TC]

Just wanted to give "Blue" some face time. Had carb rebuilt and spent Saturday dialing it and the timing in. Had problem with hard starting, but advancing the timing to 12.5 BTDC the car started right away. Thinking I was down easy street I took the car out for a drive only to find it began “knocking like crazy”. I started retarding the timing little by little beginning at 10d, 7.5d then to 5d BTDC. At 5d BTDC the engine initially ran without knocking, but became apparent at cruising trying to maintain 65mph. When the engine was shut off, it again was difficult to start - realized the engine didn’t like being retarded as much.

Began thinking some more about the situation and started thinking that since the engine was knocking under acceleration/load the vacuum advance came to mind. Thought about the Vacuum Advance Control Valve and went through the Service Manual on adjustments. The manual says it should pull 6 in. mercury but saw it was pulling 10 in. Tried to remove the VCA’s cover, but due to its location the cover was impossible to remove let alone adjust the spring. In order to access the cover the bracket holding it would need to be taken off, however it was secured by one of the intake manifold bolts. For obvious reasons I decided I didn't want to do that. It was late and getting dark so I called it a day and back to my think tank.

This weekend I think I'll just bypass the vacuum adv and run the distributor as as if it were a mechanical advance unit. I’ll just need to figure out the total advance curve and reset the timing accordingly. I’m pretty sure the knocking will stop if I do this. BTW, I do have Supreme (91 oct) in the tank.

Plugs, wires, cap, rotor, points, condesor replaced. This is a stock 383 2-barrel car, but carb upgraded to a 4-barrel Carter 3611S. Timing 12.5 BTDC, Points gapped at 0.17 and Dwell set at 30 degrees (28-32)

I have a Pertronix Igniter II and Flame Thrower Coil (40Kv) yet to install, but wanted to get to whole ignition system dialed in before I made any other change and end up chasing a new sympton.

Any ideas and/or suggestions welcomed.

 

[T & C Man]

I had a 66 T & C also, black,laser straight with a 440cid. I was desparate for Money and sold it for 9000 euros. Yours is beautiful, like the wheels too I had the stock hubcaps. Enjoy your ride;)

 

[Zymurgy]

Sorry can't help, but I love your car.

 

[detmatt]

It is a really nice wagon. He started this thread almost 2 months ago and didn't get any help, I wonder how it's going for him.

 

[Zymurgy]

It is a really nice wagon. He started this thread almost 2 months ago and didn't get any help, I wonder how it's going for him.

Wow I didn't realize it was that old. I usually catch the date. I hope he hasn't given up on us here, such a cool wagon.

 

[SF-66TC]

Wow I didn't realize it was that old. I usually catch the date. I hope he hasn't given up on us here, such a cool wagon.

It is a really nice wagon. He started this thread almost 2 months ago and didn't get any help, I wonder how it's going for him.

Thanks dematt & Zymurgy for your comments.... yeah, haven't gotten any responses... wondering if maybe 'wagons' was not a good place to post the problem.

I bypassed the vacuum advance and that didn't make a difference. I then drained the gas tank and put in 100 octane race fuel.

The pinging was reduced significantly, but was still present - however there was a VERY noticeable difference running on the highway. I pressure tested the vacuum advance diaphragm and I believe there is a leak in the diaphragm. I have a pertronix igniter II kit, but rather than get a replacement diaphragm I'm just going to get a Proform electronic dizzy & module from Summit http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66993/overview/

I haven't dove into the ignition yet as I decided to start replacing the rest of my front suspension. In July 2015 I did a front disc conversion using '73 spindles replaced the ball joints, tie-rods & idler at the same time. In Sept 2015 I installed a Firm Feel rear sway bar. I then decided to install Firm Feels tubular control arms and figured since I was going to dismantle everything again I might as well clean everything up & POR15 all the components...

and replace the rest of the front suspension parts; lower control arm, strut rod, sway bar & link bushings, lower ball joints, front/rear shocks (rcd bilsteins not shown), pitman arm...

and today I just ordered up a rebuilt power steering box from Steer & Gear in Ohio

This weekend I'll install all the passenger side components only. Just for the sake of accessibility, I'll wait until I get the new steering box before I put the drivers side back together. After I get the car aligned I'll go back and tackle the ignition problem which I think the Proform dizzy will take care of the pining issue.

 

[Fratzog]

Great looking SW. Who said slabs don't look good with Road Wheels?

 

[LocuMob]

I always modernize my cars just because of reliability. I've had distributors (reman) that were set incorrectly and caused havoc while driving. It was a great way to learn, at least after it was fixed!

That wagon rocks! Love the upgrades you are doing for the suspension, I hope to install a rear sway bar in the near future as well.

 

[Zymurgy]

I have pretty much have done the same to my 300 except the front disc brake, however I am interested in how that is going for you. The rear sway bar it great and I also had my steering box rebuilt from steer and gear, huge improvement.

Did you get the factory set up at steer and gear or did you opt for the stiffer response set up?

 

[SF-66TC]

I have pretty much have done the same to my 300 except the front disc brake, however I am interested in how that is going for you. The rear sway bar it great and I also had my steering box rebuilt from steer and gear, huge improvement.

Did you get the factory set up at steer and gear or did you opt for the stiffer response set up?

The disc brakes are FANTASTIC and can't say enuff about them. Craig from Steer & Gear said he could set up the box to feel anyway I wanted; truck, sports car, rack & pinion or factory setting. I told him since I was changing all the suspension components the car would already feel different so I wouldn't know how to gauge the differences he was telling me - so I just asked him for his suggestion. He replied that since it was a heavy car that a firm feel would be good and thinks I would be happy with it. Since the car has power steering, steering was super easy, almost too easy so firming it up sounded good to me. Zymurgy, did you get the factory or firm feel & would you have had it done any differently?

 

[Zymurgy]

The disc brakes are FANTASTIC and can't say enuff about them. Craig from Steer & Gear said he could set up the box to feel anyway I wanted; truck, sports car, rack & pinion or factory setting. I told him since I was changing all the suspension components the car would already feel different so I wouldn't know how to gauge the differences he was telling me - so I just asked him for his suggestion. He replied that since it was a heavy car that a firm feel would be good and thinks I would be happy with it. Since the car has power steering, steering was super easy, almost too easy so firming it up sounded good to me. Zymurgy, did you get the factory or firm feel & would you have had it done any differently?

You picked the right one, same as what I ordered. The funny thing is their business is about 25 miles from my house, and I had someone from CA recommend it to me, not knowing it was so close to me. You actually have really decent road feel for a big old car. The only draw back is you can't parallel park with one finger now.

 

[michiganhotrod1]

Hi, great wagon, here is a photo of my '66.
Mine has the 440, but it also is pretty sensitive to ignition knock. If you saw no improvement with the vacuum advance disconnected, I wonder if the ignition is your problem? IMHO these cars are sensitive to lean fuel mixtures, is it possible you have a vacuum leak? Try spraying brake cleaners around the usual subjects such as carb gasket, vacuum hoses, etc. The leaking vacuum advance might be one, but since you said it was bypassed... Put an old fashioned vacuum gauge on it, it may give you some clues.
Good luck.

 

[moparwagon]

That's a really nice Wagon! Regarding your Disributor, are the centrifugal weights inside the dist. moving freely? It sounds like they may be binding or sticking causing lack of advance? maybe? But a new distributor will probably fix the problem.

 

[SF-66TC]

You picked the right one, same as what I ordered. The funny thing is their business is about 25 miles from my house, and I had someone from CA recommend it to me, not knowing it was so close to me. You actually have really decent road feel for a big old car. The only draw back is you can't parallel park with one finger now.

Maybe not a finger, but what about one hand

 

[SF-66TC]

Hi, great wagon, here is a photo of my '66.
Mine has the 440, but it also is pretty sensitive to ignition knock. If you saw no improvement with the vacuum advance disconnected, I wonder if the ignition is your problem? IMHO these cars are sensitive to lean fuel mixtures, is it possible you have a vacuum leak? Try spraying brake cleaners around the usual subjects such as carb gasket, vacuum hoses, etc. The leaking vacuum advance might be one, but since you said it was bypassed... Put an old fashioned vacuum gauge on it, it may give you some clues.
Good luck.

michiganhotrod, I did the brake cleaner test = No vacuum leak anywhere. Rebuilt carb, replaced all vacuum hoses, by-passed vac adv, retarded and advanced timing = no change, pressure tested vac diaphragm and didn't see weights move, but pressure would not hold so I surmised the diaphragm was leaking... I'll go back to the drawing board after I get my front suspension all put back together.

 

[cbarge]

I finished up a 66 383 this summer.
I may have some answers/comparisons.
But first.......
What intake are you running??
Did you block the heat crossover??
Original 1966 casting heads??
Single or dual exhaust??
At what RPM does the mechanical advance is "all in"??

 

[rumpfox]

sounds like you have a mech. adv. problem. take the rotor button and see if you can turn it one way or the other and it should spring back to were you started. if it stays were you turn it you have issues in the mec. part of the dis. you should be able to run 12 to 18 degres of static timing with it having any valve pinging probblems. how do the plugs look

 

[SF-66TC]

I finished up a 66 383 this summer.
I may have some answers/comparisons.
But first.......
What intake are you running??
Did you block the heat crossover??
Original 1966 casting heads??
Single or dual exhaust??
At what RPM does the mechanical advance is "all in"??

Cbarge - see answere below -

What intake are you running??
Stock 4bbl intake (originally a 2bbl, dad upgraded in the ''70's)
Did you block the heat crossover??
Unknown - I doubt he would have...how to tell?
Original 1966 casting heads??
As far as I know, original heads - car only has 66k orig. miles
Single or dual exhaust??
Single Exhaust
At what RPM does the mechanical advance is "all in"??
My tach wasn't working at the time, but I"m guessing 2500-3000 rpm. I have a new tach, but gotta finish up suspension before I can check again.

If you can provide me a list of things to try/check i'll do them when suspension is done. - Thanks for the feedback!

 

[SF-66TC]

sounds like you have a mech. adv. problem. take the rotor button and see if you can turn it one way or the other and it should spring back to were you started. if it stays were you turn it you have issues in the mec. part of the dis. you should be able to run 12 to 18 degres of static timing with it having any valve pinging probblems. how do the plugs look

rumpfox, I'll double check the rotor button tomorrow, but I'm sure it does spring back when turned either direction. The weights are under the breaker plate so I wasn't able to check them unless turning the rotor button is doing the same thing. Plugs look great as they should.

 

[SF-66TC]

That's a really nice Wagon! Regarding your Disributor, are the centrifugal weights inside the dist. moving freely? It sounds like they may be binding or sticking causing lack of advance? maybe? But a new distributor will probably fix the problem.

moparwagon - that's what I haven't been able to check unless rumpfox's suggestion of turning the rotor is checking that.