Springs on my '65- how bad are these?

[Carl K]

I've got the 75 lb trailer hitch mounted on my '65 New Yorker now. I've also got about 120 lbs of car parts in the trunk (my '73 spindles and brakes I have not installed yet). Here's what my leaf springs look like.

Is it normal for 50 year old springs to be flat or even with inverted curvature as mine are? The factory tow package specifies "heavy duty" rear springs, which my car does not have. I'm thinking I need to go with new heavy duty springs just based on the photo above. I'm also thinking of adding 1" of additional lift.

Here's what the 15" wheels look like in the wheel arches. The sill is 8" above the ground, just forward of the rear wheelwell. The sill is 9" just aft of the front wheelwell.

Remember I'll be towing a trailer with this car. Advice/thoughts/comparisons welcome!

thanks!
Carl

 

[polara71]

One of the first things I do to a new old car is replace the rear springs....yes, those are going in the wrong direction

 

[Carl K]

Do you recommend Springs n Things?

 

[bluefury361]

Carl. I tow a 3200 lb vintage trailer with my 69 Fury wagon and had the same problem as you are experiencing. I purchased a set of direct replacement towing package springs, (7 leaf), from St Louis springs and they were not adequate, even with air shocks. I ended up adding an additional leaf, next one to the main leaf, and that shored things up. I also added a set of Monroe "coil over" shocks. The car sits a little high and rides a little rough with the trailer disconnected, so I may go back and remove one of the shorter leafs from the stack up. Connected, everything is level and tows great now. Equalizer bars and sway control is recommended.

 

[Big_John]

Those springs look shot to me too.

I recommend Springs N Things too. Leaf Springs, Coil Springs and Suspension | ESPO Springs n Things

 

[saylor]

Mopar Leaf Springs - mopar, leaf springs, Chrysler, dodge, Plymouth cars

 

[kmccabe56]

One of the first things I do to a new old car is replace the rear springs....yes, those are going in the wrong direction

Several things:

1960 & 1961 cars (possibly 1962) were designed with REVERSE arch springs, which look just like the photo in the first posting. It was done intentionally to lower the entire car.

The original post indicates the car has 195 pounds (parts and hitch) at the rear of the car. My first question would be, what was the distance from the rear of the rocker panel to the ground before you added all of this stuff? If the distances were the same front and back, then there is/was nothing wrong with the springs.

Now, having said that, it seems pretty obvious that the rear springs aren't intended to be used in trailer towing service. Any competent spring shop ( find somewhere that works primarily on big trucks) can remove your existing rear springs, re-arch them so they have a positive arch. Once you have that done, see what you have for rocker panel distances front and rear. Since you've already got the hitch installed, the car should be level with it installed. If not, then it's time to consider adding a second main leaf. This is going to stiffen the ride up a bit, but you also need to plan on the load with the trailer hooked up to the car, the hitch torsion bars set correctly and then check and see what the front and rear rocker panel distances are. The hitch torsion bars are going to transfer some of the weight of the trailer tongue load to the front wheels of the car, so all of the rocker panel distances are going to be less.

You need to be careful that you don't stiffen the rear springs up too much. Don't forget that the rear springs deflecting help with the overall steering of the car. As the outboard spring is compressed in a turn, it moves that wheel slightly rearward which helps with the built in understeer that the front suspension has. If you don't let the rear wheels move that just aggravates the understeer and with the extra mass of the trailer pushing on the car, you can have yourself a big problem in a big hurry.

Leaf springs don't "wear out". They can lose their arch as yours seem to have done, but just automatically replacing them is a waste of $$$. Unless you actually have a broken leaf, replacement isn't necessary. You don't throw away the engine or transmission in your car if it's worn out, you rebuild it. Rebuild the springs too.

 

[Yatzee]

I've got the 75 lb trailer hitch mounted on my '65 New Yorker now. I've also got about 120 lbs of car parts in the trunk (my '73 spindles and brakes I have not installed yet). Here's what my leaf springs look like.

View attachment 73251

Is it normal for 50 year old springs to be flat or even with inverted curvature as mine are? The factory tow package specifies "heavy duty" rear springs, which my car does not have. I'm thinking I need to go with new heavy duty springs just based on the photo above. I'm also thinking of adding 1" of additional lift.

Here's what the 15" wheels look like in the wheel arches. The sill is 8" above the ground, just forward of the rear wheelwell. The sill is 9" just aft of the front wheelwell.

View attachment 73252

Remember I'll be towing a trailer with this car. Advice/thoughts/comparisons welcome!

thanks!
Carl

Carl, is it just me or the way the pictures taken cause it looks as though you don't have a host of ground clearance with that hitch. Stay away from laneways with raised centers.

 

[Big_John]

I don't think that having springs rebuilt is cost effective these days.

The springs on my 300 were "rebuilt" by a local shop and one of the best things I did for my car's handling was to junk them and buy new ones. The PO had the springs rebuilt and he said it cost him just as much as the new springs. They did a horrible job, including ruining the offset shackles, but that's another story. I'm sure there are better shops, but this place is considered to be good too.... YMMV.

Springs do fatigue over time. The common way of rebuilding is to re-arch the spring and then add a leaf to make up for the loss of spring tension. It's not a bad way, but IMHO, it is just making an educated guess at getting the rate and height correct. I'd rather buy new ones that don't have the guess work in them.

 

[Duncan]

The springs on my 68 Fury looked like that - inverted curve, and I didn't have any extra weight or towing gear on mine. They were just tired. I had them rearched. They came out great! In fact, they almost raised the rear end too far! Cost me a couple of hundred bucks +/- to have them taken off, rearched, reinstalled, but it was worth it. Three plus years now and they still look like the day I got them back.

 

[bluefury361]

Several things:

it seems pretty obvious that the rear springs aren't intended to be used in trailer towing service. Any competent spring shop ( find somewhere that works primarily on big trucks) can remove your existing rear springs, re-arch them so they have a positive arch.

Mopar springs are unique in as, when new, they set flat at ride height, no arch. This offers the optimum ride comfort. HD and trailer tow springs will have a little more positive arch and increased ride height.

What I have found in the past is that a re-arched spring will work fine for light duty use, but will return to it's sag in a couple of years. Less time under heavy loads.

You need to be careful that you don't stiffen the rear springs up too much.
Very true. I added one leaf, under the main leaf, to my original 7 leaf HD springs and gained to much height. My shocks are about at their "extended" limit and some normal bumps in the road produce a harsh reaction. The car settles to a desirable height with a 3200# trailer attached. I intend to remove one of the mid length leafs and hope that will soften things up a little.

I think the key is in the type of hitch used. A adjustable hitch with equalizer bars and a sway control will compensate for a lot of spring height issues. I wish I had known this before replacing my springs twice, the second time with a customized set, which I still need to remove and modify one more time.....
Yep.... look to the hitch first....!

QUOTE]

 

[livininharrow]

I love those factory hubcaps.

 

[300rag]

.... look to the hitch first....!

That's what I said way at the beginning of your adventure.

 

[bluefury361]

That's what I said way at the beginning of your adventure.

I remember...... And it was good advise.
But I like to learn by doing and have gained a huge amount of knowledge during the process. I could probably beat the flat rate on a leaf spring R&R now.... LOL.

 

[Boomer]

Nice to see there's something reasonably priced still out there. My car was used for towing at some point too, and has similar limp springs, one side is actually inverted slightly. Was considering rebuilding/re-arching, but it looks like the new spring route is tough to beat price-wise. Flexing metal over time will cause it to fatigue, and shop costs these days just keep going up.

 

[Lou]

If you have springs rebuilt off the car, be sure to check them before you re-install them. I found that one of my rebuilt Fury wagon springs had one leaf reversed front/rear, by the shop. Luckily, I found that before I installed either, but because I didn't want to wait until Monday to take them back, I took that spring apart & corrected the mistake myself. That was the best known & most respected spring shop in this area. 25 years later they still don't know about it.

 

[Duncan]

So, have you made a decision yet and how did it work out?

 

[Lou]

So, have you made a decision yet and how did it work out?

My decision was made when I took the springs off the car for rebuilding. The rebuild worked out fine, I had overloaded the car with green firewood when it was about 5 years old. Both top leaves had a slight reverse arch that the shop fixed, along with new spacers. I've used it for trailering ever since, they still work fine.

 

[BillGrissom]

I had the leaf springs in my 65 Newport re-arched ~1993 at a place in City of Industry, CA. We lived in SoCal then. Took just a few hours to remove and re-install. The shop was documented in a magazine (probably "Cars and Parts", since gone). The shop might still be there. I later installed adjustable air-bladder shocks (J.C. Whitney, but recall at Autozone today). Those are almost needed when you tow w/ a C-body since the long trunk gives much leverage to the load, unless you have a load-leveling attachment. I can quickly pump the shocks up w/ a bicycle pump.