Haz
New Member
I've been eyeballing a lot 383's, have seen a couple with vert mounted coils, they look pretty good in that position. Am also playing with ecore coil mounting as an option, ecore was in Phoenix setup I had.
Ready to run electronic distributors.
- Thread starter Haz
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70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
That's not a 383
Moparmat2000
Active Member
The point of the ballast resistor, and only point of a ballast resistor was to lower 12V primary to 6V to prevent arcing and burnout of points. When everything went electronic, ford and chrysler got stuck on the ballast resistor. GM realized it wasnt necessary anymore because no points.
You can buy a pertronics ignitor lll cylindrical oil filled coil that has the correct ohms primary resistance as an HEI E coil. Dump the ballast resistor and hook the wires together. I myself also have the designed2drive bracket. Its a very nice piece, however i used a plug off an old HEI dizzy to the GM module, and soldered a mopar plug on the other end then used industrial heat shrink to seal up the adaptor. My reasoning is that if the HEI module goes poof, or the pickup goes poof. Its plug n play using an adaptor.
I also added another drain hole in the distributor body since your drain holes now hold the hei bracket. I also hollowed out my ballast resistor, and just soldered a heavy gage wire inside it, making it into a jumper wire that looks like a ballast instead of hooking the wires together. The other end of the HEI module to the coil is pretty easy too. A GM alternator plug from napa plugs right in. I got one w black n red wires. It was perfect.
HEI modules require 12V to deliver a good clean hot spark. Do not use a ballast resistor on one of these otherwise its not an upgrade, and would just waste your time.
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Haz
New Member
That was my 1960 phoenix with electronic setup.
Haz
New Member
Nicely done, very tidy. will copy
Moparmat2000
Active Member
In a nutshell
Yes and no. The ballast resistor was used to limit current (amperage) to the secondary circuit. As you know, for starting, bypassing the resistor allowing higher current through the coil helps start the car and compensates for voltage drop from the starter. When it's running, it doesn't need the same amount of current to keep the engine running. It does help with point life.. again by limiting current (not voltage), but it's also there for coil life (and cap/rotor life etc.)
My comment really had nothing to do with that though... We're not discussing breaker point ignitions.
From what I've read, most canister type coils that have a very low primary resistance, like around .5 ohms, live longer with a ballast resistor in series to limit current and keep it from overheating. I believe that the designtodrive site even mentions this. A slightly higher primary resistance canister coil (over 1 ohm) can do without it. Again, this is from my reading on the subject.
If Pertronix has a low resistance coil that doesn't need it, that's great. I think an E coil is the way to go and the whole thing is a moot point. Then there is no issue at all and you can take advantage of all the HEI offers for a hot spark.
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It's a good upgrade and I love the fact it can be "plug and play". All the components are easily sourced and can be keep as spares... To even having a fully done, ready to rock and roll, distributor in your long trip spares so you don't have to diagnose an ignition problem on the side of the road.
Of all the posts, I'm going to pick on yours Big_John. First, I agree the aftermarket stuff without ready parts availability is crap... buy on EB and then try to make it work when it fails (often too soon). The GM based system you linked to would be a nice piece for someone who has extensively modified their engine. GM started 12v coils in their HEI in 1974 and some applications had .045 and .060 plug gaps as a result (refer to the link in Big_John's post). The reason I would not recommend this as long as acceptable parts are available for the stock Chrysler Electronic Ignition is the 6volt coil and ballast setup should start and run fine with a compatible spark plug to the original. This system did not increase the amount of energy so much as reduce the maintenance of points.
For anyone seriously considering the change, the 12v coil systems will increase spark energy... I know this sounds nice, but with more energy, you will need to fiddle with spark plug gaps and heat ranges until you find something that truly works. This is problematic for a stockish engine as you can increase the temperature of the plug enough to cause detonation/preignition problems. If you bumped your compression, you are already in that situation... but if your build is close enough to a factory configuration that was once available, you could stay Chrysler 6v and use a plug from the application that matches your build (more or less).
If you still have to do this, I would choose a plug brand that has several heat ranges available in the correct size and seat for your cylinder heads and buy a variety... Build your GM ignition, and tune your plugs, start with a .045 gap and the coldest plug and work your way warmer until you no longer foul them... In a street setup, you don't want to get anything close to too hot or Murphy's law will take over.
If optimizing spark plugs sounds easy, great... it is, But it's constant fiddling for a racer that makes maintaining points seem like low maintenance. I personally wouldn't pooh-pooh a Chrysler electronic conversion... but anything else is really for the guy who wants to wrench on their car a lot... or fool themselves into believing they have made an improvement with no negative side effects.
A few more things to consider... different brands of plugs may have different resistance values and heat range, even though the book tells you they are the same. There is much more to tuning an ignition than I covered... I'm only focused on why I wouldn't recommend any 12v ignition replacements. If I was so inclined, I like the link Big_John posted, but only do this if you really want to forever be trying to tune away glitches in operation. I feel the same about all "improved" ignitions... so it really doesn't matter what brand you prefer.
There are others here with much more knowledge and experience than I when it comes to racing type modifications, but if all you intend to do is cruise reliably... any deviation from stock will have a negative side to it.
Haz
New Member
My goal was another step in tidying my engine bay with increased performance being a bonus. I have experience with a 318 Poly engine in a 1960 Dodge Phoenix ( with after market ignition, Bosch style distributor with BIM024 module and Procomp e-core coil) which has reliably taken us on >1000km journeys throughout coastal and inland Queensland Australia in temperatures above 100F.
That setup I could not find for my 383 Polara but with the designed2drive/Moparmat2000 setup I am confidant using these commonly found parts, subject to suitable coil we will again be good to go.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
What is the deal with that master cylinder on that car?
I've been kind of hoping I'd hear some downsides from someone like yourself. It's usually something about "I'm not putting GM parts..." rather than experience and logic.
Moparmat2000
Active Member
Sure you may have to fiddle around w plug gaps and heat ranges on the GM/mopar hybrid setup until you get it right, but in the end, i think plusses still outweigh the negatives. You end up with a way hotter/stronger spark than the stock mopar electronic offers even with an orange or gold box. This leads to better starting, better off idle and part throttle accelleration, and better fuel economy. I look at it like a poor mans MSD.
Points would only stay in tune for a short period of time, requiring adjustment for wear periodically. Electronic ignition was a way for the vehicles to maintain higher standards for emissions quality. Set it, and forget it. Nothing to adjust after that.
Personally i like to use what works for my application. If that means a GM ignition will run the best i want to use it. I also adapted a mini denso alternator made for a GM application for my ride. Sure i had to make my own spacers and brackets, but to me thats part of the fun. I like upgrading stuff where it makes sense for reliability and drivability, and i love hiding all the modifications if i can to make my stuff appear stock. Thats why when i saw the designed2drive GM HEI module mount i bought one right away. As stated previously i hollowed out my ballast resistor, and make it into a jumper wire so it all appears stock.
Being that my denso alternator has a built in regulator, the voltage reg wires on the firewall should just be attached together, however i hollowed out an old points type voltage regulator and am in the process of making that into a jumper wire so everything appears stock in that area of the firewall.
I could just remove those 2 items, splice the wiring together and wrap it into the harness, and weld up the holes in the firewall making everything neater looking, but i like the deception. Plus if something crazy happens like an EMP, i can easily put my points distributor, ballast resistor, v reg, and old alternator back in and still drive the car, while all the new electronicky stuff is smoked.
Points would only stay in tune for a short period of time, requiring adjustment for wear periodically. Electronic ignition was a way for the vehicles to maintain higher standards for emissions quality. Set it, and forget it. Nothing to adjust after that.
Personally i like to use what works for my application. If that means a GM ignition will run the best i want to use it. I also adapted a mini denso alternator made for a GM application for my ride. Sure i had to make my own spacers and brackets, but to me thats part of the fun. I like upgrading stuff where it makes sense for reliability and drivability, and i love hiding all the modifications if i can to make my stuff appear stock. Thats why when i saw the designed2drive GM HEI module mount i bought one right away. As stated previously i hollowed out my ballast resistor, and make it into a jumper wire so it all appears stock.
Being that my denso alternator has a built in regulator, the voltage reg wires on the firewall should just be attached together, however i hollowed out an old points type voltage regulator and am in the process of making that into a jumper wire so everything appears stock in that area of the firewall.
I could just remove those 2 items, splice the wiring together and wrap it into the harness, and weld up the holes in the firewall making everything neater looking, but i like the deception. Plus if something crazy happens like an EMP, i can easily put my points distributor, ballast resistor, v reg, and old alternator back in and still drive the car, while all the new electronicky stuff is smoked.
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70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Hey look everyone I redesigned the wheel and it's still round.
Ahh... But would the diodes be smoked in the alternator if an EMP happens?
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
You know what you made and MSD box are almost nothing alike right? I like what you did, although unnecessary just works like any electronic dist. A lean burn box on the side of the air cleaner shares more DNA with MSD than a GM module. The coil you choose has more to do with ignition performance than the electronic box that controls it.
A coil is like the transformer on the pole in front of your house in reverse. It takes high voltage /low current and converts it to low voltage/ high current you use on your house. You automotive coil takes low voltage high current and converts it to high voltage low current, this is why you don't die getting shocked by your spark leads. This is done by windings around a core makes a electromagnetic field that surrounds a second set of windings of a different number, then when magnetic field collapes it produces the desired voltage increase or decrease depending on DESIGN. Using that knowledge and DESIGNING a coil to work with our primary voltage to step it up to what we want, we can achieve the same voltage at the spark plug with either the low 9-10 volts or the higher 14-15 volt primary side, just a different path to get there.
Now the problem becomes with higher spark plug voltage is the cap poles and rotor jumping to wrong poles in cap causing misfires GM solved this potential problem by making the cap larger diameter, also allowed them to package it better, (packaging and marketing is what they do best).
There are advantages and disadvantages to either system but, the bottom line is if your car is not fouling plugs and having misfiring issues you are gaining nothing. Both of these issues can probably be traced to poor ignition performance in the first place, ie. a good tune up and replacement of old or worn parts.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
I can't give a Like, a Thanks, and an I Agree to one post. Shame...
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
There is no magic bullet with ignitions, they either work or don't, if they are still running it's the secondary side if it does not run it's most likely the primary side. I'm sure most of the guys on here that have wrenched for a living can follow that.
I will also add that the reason there are aftermarket dist. And ignitions for high performance use is if you are seriously modifing your engine, high compression, big overlap cams, 6000+ rpm, nitrous, turbos, superchargers, all want to pack more air and fuel molecules into the gap on the spark plug eventually not allowing the spark to jump the gap.
Moparmat2000
Active Member
Faraday cage. Keep your spare alt in one. It can be just a cardboard box completely wrapped in aluminum foil to bounce the EMP rays off. There cant be any tears in the foil though. Put your spare in it, and on the shelf.
Funny you say that... I had to explain what a Faraday cage was to the guy at the dog kennel (of all places) just yesterday. Long story....
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