70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Just because you turn the adjusting bolt does not change the Rockwell's of the torsion bar itself.
turning torion bars down?
- Thread starter Aldrich66Imp
- Start date
MrMoparCHP
Old Man with a Hat
Here is an illustration to better show what is happening.
The fuchsia is the control arm.
The light blue the torsion bar and the socket with the finger all fixed together, the dark blue arrow representing the fixed orientation of the bar.
The Control arm moves independently of the bar and its socket with finger.
The top drawing represents a LOWER stance with the adjuster only partially in.
The middle drawing represents an AVERAGE stance with the adjuster in a little more.
The bottom drawing represents a HIGHER stance with the adjuster in much more.
The drawings are symbolic and represent a loaded car on its wheels and under static load, so there is pre-twist in them that is a constant in all three as the weight is a constant.
In all these the block that the bolt threads through is fixed (floating in its pocket but fixed in reference to the arm) to the control arm.
In all three illustrations the bar is in the same position.
The weight of the car is sitting on the control arm pivot which in turn is sitting on the bolt which in turn is .sitting on the block in the arm and ultimately out to the wheel. The control arm acts as the lever with the fixed point being the wheel and the weight of the car being at the extended point. The weight on the lever is trying to push down and the torsion bar resist and twist in doing so. The bar needs to be fixed at the other end to do this. The ONLY thing that is going to cause that bar to twist is a change in weight/force.
Alan
The fuchsia is the control arm.
The light blue the torsion bar and the socket with the finger all fixed together, the dark blue arrow representing the fixed orientation of the bar.
The Control arm moves independently of the bar and its socket with finger.
The top drawing represents a LOWER stance with the adjuster only partially in.
The middle drawing represents an AVERAGE stance with the adjuster in a little more.
The bottom drawing represents a HIGHER stance with the adjuster in much more.
The drawings are symbolic and represent a loaded car on its wheels and under static load, so there is pre-twist in them that is a constant in all three as the weight is a constant.
In all these the block that the bolt threads through is fixed (floating in its pocket but fixed in reference to the arm) to the control arm.
In all three illustrations the bar is in the same position.
The weight of the car is sitting on the control arm pivot which in turn is sitting on the bolt which in turn is .sitting on the block in the arm and ultimately out to the wheel. The control arm acts as the lever with the fixed point being the wheel and the weight of the car being at the extended point. The weight on the lever is trying to push down and the torsion bar resist and twist in doing so. The bar needs to be fixed at the other end to do this. The ONLY thing that is going to cause that bar to twist is a change in weight/force.
Alan
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Now I'm seeing it. I'm 98% there. lol
all I see in that photo is the control arm flexing
MrMoparCHP
Old Man with a Hat
Trust me the shape of the control arm in each of those is the same, although a sketch it was done in a CAD program, the element was rotated 9 degrees each way.
The position of the bolt in each of the three is different, threaded about 1/3 then 1/2 then about 2/3 thus moving the arm.
The rectangular thread block is in the same position on the arm in all three.
Each of the elements in the three drawings are the same just the relative position.
The orientation of the torsion bar, socket and lever are the same in all three (blue elements).
Alan
mr. fix it
Old Man with a Hat
keep in mind that the ball joint neutral point will be off and will pivot differently and that it wasn't designed to be run at the angle it would be once the T-bar is backed off...
It may or may not be an issue but it may wear at a different pattern and stress it as well.
I recall having some aluminum slots on a 68 Cougar with a offset (tires stuck out more than the stock steelies) that stressed the hell out of my new ball joints and the joint ended up lasting for about 1 summer
It may or may not be an issue but it may wear at a different pattern and stress it as well.
I recall having some aluminum slots on a 68 Cougar with a offset (tires stuck out more than the stock steelies) that stressed the hell out of my new ball joints and the joint ended up lasting for about 1 summer
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Not as critical on suspension with lower ball joint carrying the load and top ball joint for alignment. Those up high springs are less than ideal.
Kind of like balancing a bowling ball on a stick(cougar)
Or balancing a stick on the bowling ball (Chrysler)
MrMoparCHP
Old Man with a Hat
Ok, I think I can take care of Stan's other 2%.
All things being equal:
Weight = Torsion Bar Position (twist at the control arm) (add/remove weight = change tension/twist)
Control Arm Position = Bolt Position (Change the bolt = move the arm)
At the moment you are adjusting the bolt the suspension is in FULL rebound (so we are no longer equal) so as you tighten the bolt you ARE adding tension to the torsion bar, inversely if if you loosen the bolt you ARE removing tension to the bar but keep in mind the control arm isn't moving. The arm stays fully down while adjusting, so because the arm isn't moving the bar IS.
After adjusting the bolt when you put the weight back on the wheels the position of the bar will be right where it was before the adjustment. The only thing that changed is the relative position of the control arm to the bar.
So at the moment you loosen the adjuster you are unspringing the bar but the only till you put the car back on the ground. The only change in dynamics is the car is closer to the bump stop and may have some steering characteristics changed (not likely noticed in normal driving).
Alan
All things being equal:
Weight = Torsion Bar Position (twist at the control arm) (add/remove weight = change tension/twist)
Control Arm Position = Bolt Position (Change the bolt = move the arm)
At the moment you are adjusting the bolt the suspension is in FULL rebound (so we are no longer equal) so as you tighten the bolt you ARE adding tension to the torsion bar, inversely if if you loosen the bolt you ARE removing tension to the bar but keep in mind the control arm isn't moving. The arm stays fully down while adjusting, so because the arm isn't moving the bar IS.
After adjusting the bolt when you put the weight back on the wheels the position of the bar will be right where it was before the adjustment. The only thing that changed is the relative position of the control arm to the bar.
So at the moment you loosen the adjuster you are unspringing the bar but the only till you put the car back on the ground. The only change in dynamics is the car is closer to the bump stop and may have some steering characteristics changed (not likely noticed in normal driving).
Alan
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
What it took for me to come 100% around was looking at your illustration even further and having me realize where the fulcrum really was, not where I thought it was.
Thanks. Excellent illustration.
mr. fix it
Old Man with a Hat
So I'm ready to be tutled on this subject
If a lower stance is desired then would shorter shocks be in order?
Or would it be recommended that the other lengths be available for Dukes of Hazards jumps so full suspension travel is still available?
If a lower stance is desired then would shorter shocks be in order?
Or would it be recommended that the other lengths be available for Dukes of Hazards jumps so full suspension travel is still available?
mr. fix it
Old Man with a Hat
So will Stan be slamming his Formal in the near future and adding 22" wagons to the equation?
MrMoparCHP
Old Man with a Hat
You are only compressing the shock 50% of the wheel travel. So a 2" drop will just compress the shock 1".
Shock dynamics are a totally different arena, so I'll stick to the mechanical aspects.
Alan
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
The only thing you need for Duke boy jumps is a good set of lungs to yell. Yeee-Haw!
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Talk to the next owner.So will Stan be slamming his Formal in the near future and adding 22" wagons to the equation?
Aldrich66Imp
New Member
Yeah I don't have the adjuster bolt that everybody says I should on my lower control arms. Here's pics of my lower control arm and a dark pic back at the crossmember where the torsion bars go in...
MrMoparCHP
Old Man with a Hat
There must be something for adjusting on the other end of the torsion bar.
Alan
Alan
Aldrich66Imp
New Member
There's some 1 1/8" bolts that run beside the torsion bar at the cross member. I've had a 2foot breaker bar on and couldn't budge
MrMoparCHP
Old Man with a Hat
This is where I bow out as I'm not familiar with the procedure on that car.
Alan
Alan
78Brougham
"Chump"
I think you should get a hold of a FSM. I've never seen that setup on a Chrysler but I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Well, that's a shocker. I shouldn't have assumed...
Goes to show ya.
Goes to show ya.
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