Cause of weak spectator turnout at Carlisle?

[bigmoparjeff]

Just received this email at 9pm tonight.

Looks like Carlisle Events is really on the ball this year.

Jeff

 

[Trace 300 Hurst]

Did you think it was weak? Seemed damn busy to me.

After all, I was there. And YOU were there. And we had a few laughs together at FuryGT's trailer [and that was fun!]. Ain't that enough?

Who cares about everyone else?

Great meeting ya.

 

[mobileparts]

It WAS definitely a weak attendance.
I know they had 2804 cars -- a fourth straight record year -- and that IS nice -- and hopefully in the next couple years, we'll top 3000.... That would be cool...
But four years ago, they raised the entrance fee from $ 10 to 12 and now this year, to $ 15 .....
Hey, Carlisle, R E L A X It already.....

The swap meet aisles were EMPTY.... I said at 11:00 A M Friday -- to a security guard I know tooling around on his golf cart , "Hey, can you tell them to open the gates and let the people in???"
He replied, " Yeah, Carlisle is whining, attendance is way down."
Notice Carlisle was happy to keep announcing
"A record event -- and the 2804 cars" --- but they never
Mentioned that there were 10 to 20,000 less spectators there......
Yours, Craig.....

 

[bigmoparjeff]

Did you think it was weak? Seemed damn busy to me.

After all, I was there. And YOU were there. And we had a few laughs together at FuryGT's trailer [and that was fun!]. Ain't that enough?

Who cares about everyone else?

Great meeting ya.

Thanks! Yes, it was great to meet some more of the FCBO crew at the show for the first time.

I do have a good answer to your last question. I think everyone should care. Carlisle's foundation was the swap meet, not the car show. If turnout keeps dropping, vendors will pull out, and the meet will die. If it was just a big car show, I doubt that I would travel 2.5 hrs to go there, or at least not every year. I've never seen it clear out so early on a Saturday before, especially when you consider how nice the weather was. My understanding is that the GM only meet is just about dead, if it hasn't been cancelled already. I'd hate to see that happen to ours.

Despite the light turnout, we actually did pretty good selling stuff, but I still worry about how things will go in the future.

Jeff

 

[saforwardlook]

We are all living in what is now a pretty distant past and recalling the glory days that drive us in our passion for these automobiles. As our numbers decline on this forum and people continue to get even more advanced in age as these yearly event photos demonstrate, this phenomenon will accelerate.

In watching the very real turmoil going on in the automotive industry these days, including the rapid and intense push for autonomous driving cars, climate change that is pushing EVs and fewer fuel burning power plants plus the business case emphasis on ride sharing, the decline in interest from the general public will just accelerate from here on accordingly. Interest in cars of the 40s is gone and interest in the 50"s cars is rapidly declining especially in terms of anyone wanting to take on a complete restoration anymore (because of the difficulty, parts availability and cost perspective). The cars of the 60s and 70s are up next. GM's best cars were designed and built in the 1961 - 1971 era IMO and that is probaby why the GM Carlisle meet is pretty much dead. Chrysler still had probably some of the best and most interesting cars over those years and well into the 70s, which probably explains why the Chrysler Carslisle event is still more alive.

All we can do is enjoy the interest that is left and the friendships that have formed and the good times such as events like Carlisle afford and accept the future for where it is surely going. Anything else is futile. I am OK with that and and am also glad I wasn't born any later given where I see people's values, mores and behavior going these days. I am thankful for the good run that I have had and glad that I won't be going all that much further, as I don't see anything in the homogenized, electronics based future to get really excited about.

 

[CBODY67]

One observation we had after going to Mopar Nats for several years in the '80s and 90s was that the main attendees were from the "5 State Area", unless they came from "far off" or flew in (as most of us did). Therefore, the initial move from National Trails to "Indy" brought in new vehicles and swap meet vendors.

When the Carlisle people were expanding into the single-maker events, it was new territory of sorts for them. Many claimed the Carlisle Mopar event was better than Mopar Nats, at that time, but I don't know of any of our people who also went there, letting Mopar Nats supply our swap meet and Manufacturer's Midway needs.

From the magazine pictures, it always seemed that Carlisle had some neat stuff, which Mopar Nats didn't. Which was neat. But after seeing some of the same specialty personalities each year, any reason to go see them again?

The OTHER thing is the amount and types of weather that we've had in the USA (and that particular region) over the past few months. Did the "lost attendees" have to remain near home to deal with weather-related issues? Financial issues in our "great" economy? Or anything else to speculate about its affects?

In my case, I had a streak between 1988 and 2005 where I only missed about three years of going to Mopar Nats. That was my "Mopar Fix" each year. But in our original group of about 15, many didn't need to go to shop for swap meet parts, as others sold their cars, or had other life issues to deal with. Great times!

The promoters might pay their overhead with the swap meet spaces and other vendor spaces and car show entries. But even if those things are still strong, it's the excitement of the event that brings in the spectators (and related $$$$). Be that as it may.

Perhaps, from my perspective, I considered Mopar Nats to be the dominant event of its type. Which put Chryslers Carlisle secondary, but not in a bad light. Couldn't make both of them, or justify it, financially. Obviously, people closer to that venue might feel differently?

Perhaps, as I've never ventured off to Carlisle, I shouldn't be in this discussion? Just curious what might be going on and asking a few questions.

CBODY67

 

[1978 NYB]

Carlisle 2019

 

[polara71]

Not sure where you guys were, it was like driving on a New Jersey road. Friday and Saturday people were everywhere and in my way.
Attendance down? I guess that is possible but everyone I talked to about the crowds said the weather must have been the reason for the huge crowd.
When do they give the gate numbers?

 

[1978 NYB]

It took me an hour to get from the Turnpike to the C-Body line Saturday morning. People and Mopar's everywhere. I almost missed the group picture.

 

[68_fury_ragtop]

As much as I hate to admit it, automotive interest and restoration is becoming an aging hobby. I have a friend that Dj's cruise nights and car shows; and has been doing so for the last 30 years. He has seen a marked decrease in the attendance over the last 5-7 years. The main core group is getting older and don't like to go out when it is hotter or later at night. The cruise nights in my area are starting earlier and ending earlier as many people don't like to drive home after dark. local swap meets in my area have seen a marked decrease in attendance over the last few years. With the advent of internet and ebay, searching for parts in also now just a click away.

 

[Don Stolfi]

We are all living in what is now a pretty distant past and recalling the glory days that drive us in our passion for these automobiles. As our numbers decline on this forum and people continue to get even more advanced in age as these yearly event photos demonstrate, this phenomenon will accelerate.

In watching the very real turmoil going on in the automotive industry these days, including the rapid and intense push for autonomous driving cars, climate change that is pushing EVs and fewer fuel burning power plants plus the business case emphasis on ride sharing, the deline in interest from the general public will just accelerate from here on accordingly. Interest in cars of the 40s is gone and interest in the 50"s cars is rapidly declining especially in terms of anyone wanting to take on a complete restoration anymore (because of the difficulty, parts availability and cost perspective). The cars of the 60s and 70s are up next. GM's best cars were designed and built in the 1961 - 1971 era IMO and that is probaby why the GM Carlisle meet is pretty much dead. Chrysler still had probably some of the best and most interesting cars over those years and well into the 70s, which probably explains why the Chrysler Carslisle event is still more alive.

All we can do is enjoy the interest that is left and the friendships that have formed and the good times such as events like Carlisle afford and accept the future for where it is surely going. Anything else is futile. I am OK with that and and am also glad I wasn't born any later given where I see people's values, mores and behavior going these days. I am thankful for the good run that I have had and glad that I won't be going all that much further, as I don't see anything in the homogenized, electronics based future to get really excited about.

Beautifully said...thank you.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I do agree that swap action was light. With the internet and repop parts, looking through cluster f... of parts is losing it's luster. There are those parts you have no choice. The other reason for tickets being light is you get to bring in whoever is in your car. They need to go to a wristband system like everyone else. Just my thoughts.

 

[rapidtrans]

The only area that seemed "down" from previous years was the car corral. Unused corral spaces were filled by more vendors. Show aisles (and roads getting there) held the usual crowds Friday and Saturday.

 

[78Brougham]

. The other reason for tickets being light is you get to bring in whoever is in your car.

That's not quite true Dave. Only driver and one passenger, just ask Mario.
Unless of course you wanna make for our five trips in and to bring them in one at a time.

 

[FURYGT]

Did you think it was weak? Seemed damn busy to me.

After all, I was there. And YOU were there. And we had a few laughs together at FuryGT's trailer [and that was fun!]. Ain't that enough?

Who cares about everyone else?

Great meeting ya.

Well said. I think the turnout was good. I think Jeff is just joking about Carlisle Events poor control on releasing emails.

 

[rags]

Interest in cars of the 40s is gone and interest in the 50"s cars is rapidly declining especially in terms of anyone wanting to take on a complete restoration anymore (because of the difficulty, parts availability and cost perspective). The cars of the 60s and 70s are up next.

so by this logic i should be able to find the brass era model T speedster of my dreams for what? seven hundred and fifty bucks, running and driving? maybe a nice touring car for fifteen hundred!

 

[FURYGT]

I thought that the swap meet traffic was good. I was disappointed in the number of members from this forum that came by my swap meet spaces. I want to thank those that did come by as I was basically tied to my spaces all weekend, especially on the days that my wife could not make it as she hurt her back.

Special thanks to Barry, Billy Fury & SportFury70 for their help in getting me set up and organized.

The vendor spaces sold out. I had wanted to buy another space but couldn't. I wish that Carlisle would adopt a policy where you cannot buy a swap meet space to park in unless you are going to be selling items.

I brought too many parts for the space that I had although that was somewhat compromised by having to have my trailer parked in one of the spaces.

Thank you to everyone that bought some parts from me. Many of you got some REALLY GOOD deals in my opinion. I didn't sell as much of the large and/or heavy items as I wanted but overall, I may have exceeded my sales in terms of dollars from the last time I was a vendor at Carlisle and that was around 4 years ago when I had 5 spaces. This was my last year vending. It is too physically demanding and my back and feet are suffering. I am getting to old for this. I plan on listing a lot of parts for sale on FCBO going forward.

Leaving Carlisle this morning. It took 2 mechanics but the generator got fixed on Saturday so hopefully the repair will keep it running during our trip home today.

 

[rapidtrans]

Some years the Featured Vehicle Event is kinda mundane. This year featured the 69 model year at 50. Half seemed to be the same Mod Top cars from a couple years ago.
Next year one would assume the E body will be the featured vehicle.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

That's not quite true Dave. Only driver and one passenger, just ask Mario.
Unless of course you wanna make for our five trips in and to bring them in one at a time.

I'm not that knowledgeable on that as I never leave the whole weekend.
If you have 5 cars going as family and friends you can just put two in each car is.

 

[Trace 300 Hurst]

I think Jeff is just joking about Carlisle Events poor control on releasing emails.

Yes, I actually thought that, too, because I also thought the place was damn crowded, same as last year (although comparing two years in a row is not statistically useful).

But I do agree with the observations of how a sector of an auto hobby "dies off" as the adults (of any period) who lusted after a car of their teen years eventually move away from the hobby and/or passes away. As mentioned above, that's why the brass and "classics" get scant attention anymore, and why the mighty Tri-Five Chevys are also fading unless it's a $$$ restomod.