Wiped cam on break-in

That's... ummm... Interesting.

To me, that sends up a huge red flag about the shop. Wrong pushrod, so what else did they do wrong. It also doesn't look like a uniform hole, so that would make me look at what else is messed up.

There's a lot of things that can go wrong with cam break in. Did the engine start right away?

Valid point

That pushrod was peened up a bit that was the one that came out on break in ,#3 exhaust..

I think it stalled once and we filled bowl again & refired , had about 70psi oil pressure right away & it sounded pretty good
 
The pushrod should not make a difference, with or without. The lifters did not rotate. Could be dirt in bores or gallery, could be scuffs or burrs in the bore, or it could just be the lifters (doubtful after all the problems a few years back). Oil type and cam lube not being wiped off by constant turning prior to start up. I'm not a fan of the "grease" that comp supplies as their cam lube, Sta-lube with moly in it is the one I always swear by, and have never had to swear at. However the shop buttoned it up and gave you the go ahead to install and break it in yourself so IMO it is falling back in their lap.
If it were my shop I would have ran it in and gave it to you ready to install and idle normally.
As a side note: Again IMO, FWIW that small of a cam and unported heads 450 is a unrealistic number. Of course it is not making any HP with bad cam lobes so moot point.
Good luck, and as my saying goes "I'm doing it myself because I can screw it up just as bad as the next guy"
 
Cam-shield high zddp assembly paste . Rockauto and Goodsons sell it.
When I put my 440 together camshaft and lifters cam with the rebuild kit. White box cam and lifters.
Lubed the crap out of the lifters added zddp to the oil. Been running good since with Lucas Hot Rod and Classic oil. Good luck!
 
Good luck, and as my saying goes "I'm doing it myself because I can screw it up just as bad as the next guy"

THAT is PRECISELY WHY I TRY TO DO AS MUCH OF MY OWN WORK AS POSSIBLE! In MANY trades now, I've become more trustworthy and expert than bonded shops and certificate bearers. I get NO comfort from that at ALLLL either. Folks are going to be very upset in another 20 years methinks.....
 
When I get my engines rebuilt by my usual shop, I always elect to have them run-in the engine for at least 30 minutes on a test stand and I insist that I be present for the event so I would know if anything went south. It costs me an extra $300, but to me it is well worth the cost for good insurance. That way, if anything happens, there is no one to blame but themselves or their suppliers. I don't need the tension of a first start up on a new engine, so I will not use a shop that will not break in the cam before I even get the engine back. Having at least that option also tells me they have a stake in supplying parts that will go the distance. I also believe $8K for your rebuild is a bend, but then I don't know everything that was done to your engine either since you have kicked up the engine's output at the same time. Hoping the shop will step up and accept the responsibility for what has happened and make it right at their expense. Let us know.
 
May or may not be relevant - but I know Comp recommends that the lifters be cleaned with mineral spirits before installation, which is a step MANY people skip. Reason being the coating that is applied to keep them from oxidizing can cause them to stick in the lifter bores.
 
Well I spoke to the shop yesterday . They said they could give me a cam , lifters and rods . They would come to my house and help me set it up but said in order to do it right its gotta be gone through and cleaned , bearings checked ect. They said they would cover however I would like to proceed. They said they get this once a year unfortunately with a flat tappet. If I wanted a roller I could cover the difference. I told them I'll pull it and have it at the shop by Saturday. And asked for the quote on the roller.
 
When I get my engines rebuilt by my usual shop, I always elect to have them run-in the engine for at least 30 minutes on a test stand and I insist that I be present for the event so I would know if anything went south. It costs me an extra $300, but to me it is well worth the cost for good insurance. That way, if anything happens, there is no one to blame but themselves or their suppliers. I don't need the tension of a first start up on a new engine, so I will not use a shop that will not break in the cam before I even get the engine back. Having at least that option also tells me they have a stake in supplying parts that will go the distance. I also believe $8K for your rebuild is a bend, but then I don't know everything that was done to your engine either since you have kicked up the engine's output at the same time. Hoping the shop will step up and accept the responsibility for what has happened and make it right at their expense. Let us know.

The policy at the shop I use is pretty simple. He supplies the parts and breaks it in on his dyno, he stands behind it 100% even full tilt race engines. No dyno, it's all yours as soon as it clears the doors.

Kevin
 
Well I spoke to the shop yesterday . They said they could give me a cam , lifters and rods . They would come to my house and help me set it up but said in order to do it right its gotta be gone through and cleaned , bearings checked ect. They said they would cover however I would like to proceed. They said they get this once a year unfortunately with a flat tappet. If I wanted a roller I could cover the difference. I told them I'll pull it and have it at the shop by Saturday. And asked for the quote on the roller.
That's good that they are standing behind their work. For $8k, they should...

I'm not so sure on the roller lifters myself, but do some serious research before you commit to them. The failure rate may be lower at start up then flat tappet cams, but a lot higher long term. At least, that's what I've seen.
 
Well I spoke to the shop yesterday . They said they could give me a cam , lifters and rods . They would come to my house and help me set it up but said in order to do it right its gotta be gone through and cleaned , bearings checked ect. They said they would cover however I would like to proceed. They said they get this once a year unfortunately with a flat tappet. If I wanted a roller I could cover the difference. I told them I'll pull it and have it at the shop by Saturday. And asked for the quote on the roller.
Just a warning so you don't get "Sticker Shock", but a roller cam is going to be very expensive. You will need the new cam, eight sets of roller lifters, and 16 custom pushrods. Good luck with your decision.
 
First, I am sorry to hear about the failed cam/lifters on this build.:(
Any car guy anywhere will have had this happen or knows someone this has happened to.

After readng comments here, I am a firm believer in not just the quality of parts but of the build as well. Engine building is tedious work.

I personally would expect the builder to take this down every nut & bolt and with you present inspect every bearing including piston & rings for debris or damage.
The lost metal doesn't just vaporize. it ends up somewhere.
Have the block & heads flushed of any contaminants
Tear your oil filter apart and inspect for metal debris.
You should consider replacing your oil pump as well after a failure such as this if there is lot of debris in the oil filter or pan.
In short & full tear down & rebuild is in order with the kind of cash invested.
I hope that you can get this resolved without further damage to your wallet as well.:rolleyes:

Keep us posted.
 
I put a Mopar Performance Cam, lifters and pushrods into my 79 300 E58 last year along with double roller and Performer intake. Turned the key she fired right up ran at 2500 for 15 min then 3 more 10 minute runs over the course of a couple of days. Runs great and feels strong...guess I got lucky as I did what I have always done. Soaked the lifters in ATF for a day and used assembly lube on everything. The Purple shaft is a nice bump up from stock but nothing crazy.
 
I put a Mopar Performance Cam, lifters and pushrods into my 79 300 E58 last year along with double roller and Performer intake. Turned the key she fired right up ran at 2500 for 15 min then 3 more 10 minute runs over the course of a couple of days. Runs great and feels strong...guess I got lucky as I did what I have always done. Soaked the lifters in ATF for a day and used assembly lube on everything. The Purple shaft is a nice bump up from stock but nothing crazy.

guessing l.ll be pestering the crap outa you in the near future to school me:poke:
 
Just put a hydraulic roller in it. After many flat tappet failures in small and big block chevys, i dont think i can ever use a flat tappet again. I used straub technologies to grind me a cam to his specs and used his recomended morrel brand roller lifters..peace of mind and rework on a new motor are worth the extra cost. And the breathtaking performance is a bonus. I would stay away from comp cams and their roller lifters. I had a link bar failure on a set of their lifters.
 
Part of assembly is verification of lifter bore clearance, verifying lifter rotation, and correct lifter preload.
You have adjustable rockers on that - what was the preload set to?
You filled the carb bowls - how many times did the engine get turned over (by hand and with the starter) during installation and prepping for the first fire? Did you use the starter to pre-oil in the chassis? Did you use the starter to check for spark? Preoiling does nothing for saving a camshaft. That's why I built my running stand - to make sure the cam's ready before the customer gets their hands on it. Engine dynos do the same thing plus. I also photograph the results of the lifter rotation validation.


Brand is not the problem and that's just ignorance or stubbornness. Both are common on the interweb.
That camshaft is a moderate old grind. It's nothing risky. Whether break in oil, or std oil and an additive were used won't matter with that camshaft. Something was missed and my guess is the preload was off, the lifter didn't rotate due to debris, or too much lifter bore wear so the lifter face and cam lobe interface wasn't right. You can check the preload on the rest of them to tell you if that was a problem. Sorry you lost it - but you caught it and it's probably an easy fix given the short run time.
 
Thanks for the updates. Problem with many roller cam upgrades is the VALVE LIFT and longer duration of the roller cam vs. a flat tappet cam. Many rollers have over .500 lift, which will mean other things needs to be done for piston crown clearance and such. It WILL be more expensive, just for the basic cam kit.

To me, using a roller side-steps all of any future oil formulation changes, rather than chasing specialized oils from certain vendors. BUT I don't need a high-lift long duration cam just to use roller lifters, but that's all many vendors sell. Figuring that if you "go roller", you're also "going racing".

As for the Comp Cams optional nitride treatment? I highly suspect that the cam lobe hardness treatment they had been using was adequate for when the oils had more zddp in it. It seems that this whole "lobe wipe-out" issue started with the aftermarket and other non-factory brand cams. With the OEMs doing a nitride treatment that was "deeper" and better, as a matter of course. When we went through the old Buick V-6 engine plant in Flint, on the tour we went by a machine that was doing the Parkerizing treatment. Took less than a minute. Not sure if the liquid was stronger or if the aftermarket brands do it quicker?

After seeing the thread of the Comp Cams roller separators coming apart, about a year or so ago, I asked an associate if he'd ever seen that on a street motor? Reason is that in all of the older race motors I'd been around, that's the ONLY way to keep the rollers "in place" and aligned. He said that he'd never seen that happen in a race motor. The OEM GM small block roller cam motors (for production engines with normal horsepower ratings), they use a metal "spider" (which bolts to two bosses in the lifter valley hump) to keep all of the lifters aligned. Not sure how Chrysler did it on their later roller LA motors, but suspect something similar. On the GM LS motors, they use plastic trays (one on each lifter bank) to keep the lifters aligned and in place. We had one 6.0L box van that needed a new cam about every 70K miles, as one lifter would turn a bit and that lobe was worn excessively . . . enough to lose power with a faint tick in the motor).

It sounds like the shop will take good care of you, which is good. I'd find a different brand cam (same price and general specs), if possible, but if they desire to use a Comp product again, let that be their call. Then, possibly, see if one of them will be present when you get things put back together and initially started. That way, everybody knows it was installed well and broke-in correctly.

Keep us posted,
CBODY67
 
Dropped the engine at the shop after work yesterday. He wanted to check it out before we went over the options and time. If it was going to have to be on every machine in his shop might as well do the machine work for the rollers. I was glad to hear they got right to work. By 4pm today I received a phone call from the builder. Engine was completely disassembled and was just about done getting honed out , next was a hot tank. Damage was not as bad as he expected . He specifically called to discuss options. He recommended and said he had good success in the past using a nitride hardened cam with solid EDM lifters . He also said the roller I would like to go with would run me about 1100 by the time I get out the door. Even after the credit . Machine work , springs , pushrod change ect. Adds up quick. I am tempted by the worry free break in process of the roller but to keep an extra 1100 in my pocket is pretty tempting too. I opted for the 1st option and hes covering the tab and expects to be wrapping it up end of next week depending on when the cam get in. I also discussed having one of them at the house when I fired it. They covered it this time without hesitation I'm not so sure if I had issues again they would cover it, I hope I don't have to find out.
 
had rear end built once...specified gears ect…..didnt end well to say the least...whether it was the gears "Yukon"..or mechanic will never really know but he had recommended something else because he had delt with many setups earlier with no issues....bottom line l don't argue with mechs anymore...if they have a recommendation will general go with it..that was a 3500$ lesson...lesson learned
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