Why does bodywork and painting cost so much? We break it down
- Thread starter sauterd
- Start date
78Brougham
"Chump"
Good article.... Thanks!
I do everything myself, except for welding and bondo.
Preparing and painting (outside only) a rustfree XXL car takes me about 150 hours of work. And that is without any finishing work on the new coat.
When there's rust involved (as there usually is), the extra hours are adding up really fast.
The good news is, that a paintjob just sets me back around € 350,- on material costs.
Preparing and painting (outside only) a rustfree XXL car takes me about 150 hours of work. And that is without any finishing work on the new coat.
When there's rust involved (as there usually is), the extra hours are adding up really fast.
The good news is, that a paintjob just sets me back around € 350,- on material costs.
Last edited:
azblackhemi
Old Man with a Hat
Very good article.
mr. fix it
Old Man with a Hat
This is why I prefer cars that are not pristine but do appreciate the ones that are done to the nine’s as well
Thanks for posting this
Thanks for posting this
mrfury68
Senior Member
Great article. I cannot do any type of body work or paint so I appreciate those who can and are masters of their craft. After seeing what it costs today I am so glad I had mine done 35 years ago.
Wonderwagon
Well-Known Member
My thread "Restoration of My Family's Grocery Getter, paint alone is mid teens. It an't cheap, but looks awsome, a fools errand perhaps; but a life time of memories with more to make
In general, a good explanation of ALL that's involved.
Perhaps I'm looking at things a bit differently, but it doesn't or shouldn't take a full restoration shop to do "straight" body work. Nor should it take a restoration shop to get a good quality paint job using OEM-spec or better materials. Panel gap alignments will be governed by what the particular vehicle had to start with. Certainly, the restoration shop would be expected to take more "care" in the bodywork being as good as it can be, using several primer/sand operations before the color goes on. Which would probably yield a "better than new" appearance, in many cases.
This higher price of the restoration shop work could also help cover their investment in workers and facilities.
I'll concur that a "collision shop" will be more production-oriented, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll do sloppy work. Especially considering the current level of OEM vehicles' paint quality.
As always, taking a buddy along on your body shop shopping tour might be a good idea. Of course, having the subject-car there, too, would be a good idea. KNOW YOUR car, too, as to what you want, what the car really needs, and about how much you want to spend (in your mind, ONLY . . . don't tell them, for good measure). Get a time-line for how it'll all work and when it should be done. PLUS what it'll cost AND the capability of you to check on things as desired!
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
Perhaps I'm looking at things a bit differently, but it doesn't or shouldn't take a full restoration shop to do "straight" body work. Nor should it take a restoration shop to get a good quality paint job using OEM-spec or better materials. Panel gap alignments will be governed by what the particular vehicle had to start with. Certainly, the restoration shop would be expected to take more "care" in the bodywork being as good as it can be, using several primer/sand operations before the color goes on. Which would probably yield a "better than new" appearance, in many cases.
This higher price of the restoration shop work could also help cover their investment in workers and facilities.
I'll concur that a "collision shop" will be more production-oriented, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll do sloppy work. Especially considering the current level of OEM vehicles' paint quality.
As always, taking a buddy along on your body shop shopping tour might be a good idea. Of course, having the subject-car there, too, would be a good idea. KNOW YOUR car, too, as to what you want, what the car really needs, and about how much you want to spend (in your mind, ONLY . . . don't tell them, for good measure). Get a time-line for how it'll all work and when it should be done. PLUS what it'll cost AND the capability of you to check on things as desired!
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
Mike66Chryslers
Senior Member
As they say in the article, it depends on what level of restoration you want, and you should sort this out with the shop before selecting a shop, getting an estimate and beginning the work. I wish I'd seen an article like this when I was looking for a restoration shop, but fortunately I am happy with how things turned out for me.
A proper restoration shop will want all of the chrome trim, door handles, etc. removed and likely want to take the car down to steel before repainting. They don't want their work to be applied over old bodywork where they don't know how well it was done. A collision shop would be more likely to do a "scuff and shoot" over the existing paint, and will tape over trim, door handles, etc. instead of removing them, unless you remove them first or ask them to do that as part of the job.
If you're replacing body panels, that will affect the panel gaps. For example, for my Windsor resto, the shop and I agreed that it would be more cost-effective for me to find and ship better doors than repair the rust on the ones I had (BTW, thank you again @azblackhemi). When my body guy "Painter Paul" bolted them onto my car, he discovered that the drivers door lined-up well but the passenger door was too far forward for some unknown reason. He had to shim the hinges to move it rearward to fix the panel gaps. Additionally, the entire front clip on my car was coming from a parts car, so all the panel alignment had to be redone from scratch.
If the body is being taken down to steel, you should get the metal sealed with epoxy primer as the first layer. Restoration shops will do that, but collision shops don't normally apply epoxy primer. I needed to replace the trunk floorpan in my '66 Windsor. I cut one out of a parts car which I was going to weld in myself. I took it to a shop to get sandblasted, then to a local collision shop that I dealt with previously for work on my daily drivers and asked them to epoxy it for me. They said they only use water-based paints now. They didn't want to use epoxy primer in their equipment because it would be a special order, and would require extra cleaning to ensure no contamination with incompatible solvents, etc. So I let them spray it with the primer/sealer coating that they normally use instead.
I'm sure a restoration shop will take more effort where rust repair is necessary. In my experience, collision shops today are used to pulling out dents or buying new/reproduction panels or getting used ones from the scrapyard, not repairing rust damage on existing panels by fabricating patch panels. That is a time-consuming and skilled process to do well. For cars like ours where new panels are not available and good used ones are no longer available in the wreckers in many areas, a collision shop is probably going to spend less time fabricating and more time applying bondo.
My '66 Windsor was previously restored in the 1980s, probably at a collision shop. Some of the trim was just taped-over. My outline moldings were removed but the clips were left in and painted-over. For rust repair, new metal was pop-riveted over rusted-out sections and then skimmed over with bondo in some areas.
It was obvious where bodywork had been done in several places, because not enough time had been spent block sanding nor feathering the bodywork into the existing paint.A collision shop would likely use air-powered orbital and straight-line sanders which are maybe 2 feet long. In contrast, Painter Paul block-sanded my car by hand. He made custom sanding blocks for my car which were 4 feet long, so that the bodywork would come out perfectly straight during block sanding. The results speak for themselves:
Last edited:
I know first hand even doing the work myself or having friends help out,getting that perfect paint job is not cheap.
Even getting supplies at "my cost" through my work still not cheap.
That's not including me doing my own work and the help of others pitching in.
Every time I needed rolls of sandpaper for the DA,or or a 20 liter of gun cleens or a gallon of epoxy primer i drop a couple hundred bux--that is way before getting into primer..
sheetmetal 4x4 20 gauge 4 sheets at a hondo a piece...argon gas refill 50 bux----times that several times! wire feed not cheap for the MIG welder.
First round of urethane primer and all supplies i dropped 500 bux!
Second round to get into the last coat of primer was 1200 bux! and the car still not painted!!
Final prep, and paint 8,000.00!!! The paint alone was 1500.00 for one gallon!!
I gave the painter a DONE CAR in primer,just paint it.!
The motor and trans rebuilds were cheaper than the the paint job.
I can only imagine that if I were to just cut cheques to someone else to do what I did on my car,it would not have been feasible to restore.
Even getting supplies at "my cost" through my work still not cheap.
That's not including me doing my own work and the help of others pitching in.
Every time I needed rolls of sandpaper for the DA,or or a 20 liter of gun cleens or a gallon of epoxy primer i drop a couple hundred bux--that is way before getting into primer..
sheetmetal 4x4 20 gauge 4 sheets at a hondo a piece...argon gas refill 50 bux----times that several times! wire feed not cheap for the MIG welder.
First round of urethane primer and all supplies i dropped 500 bux!
Second round to get into the last coat of primer was 1200 bux! and the car still not painted!!
Final prep, and paint 8,000.00!!! The paint alone was 1500.00 for one gallon!!
I gave the painter a DONE CAR in primer,just paint it.!
The motor and trans rebuilds were cheaper than the the paint job.
I can only imagine that if I were to just cut cheques to someone else to do what I did on my car,it would not have been feasible to restore.
twostick
Senior Member
When I did my New Yorker back about 2000, I spent over $2k on paint and materials and that was just plain old Centari, nothing special. Rolls of DA discs in 180 and 320, masking paper and good 3M tape all adds up to $$. Etching primer, epoxy and high build primers and lots of sanding and blocking and as good as I thought it looked before we shot it, I could see after where more time should have been spent. 98% of a great paint job happens before the first coat of colour.
Kevin
Kevin
tbm3fan
Old Man with a Hat
The level the article is talking about is way way beyond what the factory car would have been. Perfect panels gaps. Perfect mirror finish. Those were not and still are not the goals of the manufacturer. I have done three vehicles now. My learning experience was on my 68 Mustang back in 1988. Never did body work or painting but did on that car which was down to bare metal everywhere. Bought most of the supplies back then that I still use today given the quantity that one got when supplies. That car was Ok but is due to be repainted soon but won't need to be more than having the whole body block sanded and a few dings handled.
Fast forward to this century for the Polara and F100. The Polara had a few dings and two shallow dents that needed to be pulled out and for which I had a stud welder. The original paint was in great shape so the car only got primed in the areas that were worked. The body was then block sanded for several months till the white paint was thin and the factory primer was just barely showing. All painting supplies were $300 which was 1 gallon of PPG Concept SS and catalyst. I had the reducer in volume. After painting there was only mild color sanding done to achieve subtle orange peel but I use color sanding discs ranging from 1500 to 3000 to 5000 before polishing. I only color sand by hand in tough locations. My F100 was not any different and also needed only 1 gallon of paint to do.
Most of my money went into the tools from Makita, Flex, the stud welder, and the special orbital tool for the color sanding. Add my Lincoln welder in and it is around $3000 for them. Sand paper , reducers, compounds, and de Kups for my gun are incidentals which I consider low dollars. Also soon I will be doing some welding on the trunk floor pan in the big Merc. Good amount of dents in that car which I may do one day. The paint, enough for three more cars is already stored away all single stage and none was over $200/gallon.
In the end the easy part was the body work, filler work, and the sanding. You simply take your time. The hardest part, because of technique, was painting. Getting the fan just right, getting the right distance, and the right speed of gun movement took time to nail down especially along long panels. I have watched videos of guys whipping their guns around but it doesn't really work that way when you are trying to lay down a medium wet coat of either SS color or Clear coat.
Fast forward to this century for the Polara and F100. The Polara had a few dings and two shallow dents that needed to be pulled out and for which I had a stud welder. The original paint was in great shape so the car only got primed in the areas that were worked. The body was then block sanded for several months till the white paint was thin and the factory primer was just barely showing. All painting supplies were $300 which was 1 gallon of PPG Concept SS and catalyst. I had the reducer in volume. After painting there was only mild color sanding done to achieve subtle orange peel but I use color sanding discs ranging from 1500 to 3000 to 5000 before polishing. I only color sand by hand in tough locations. My F100 was not any different and also needed only 1 gallon of paint to do.
Most of my money went into the tools from Makita, Flex, the stud welder, and the special orbital tool for the color sanding. Add my Lincoln welder in and it is around $3000 for them. Sand paper , reducers, compounds, and de Kups for my gun are incidentals which I consider low dollars. Also soon I will be doing some welding on the trunk floor pan in the big Merc. Good amount of dents in that car which I may do one day. The paint, enough for three more cars is already stored away all single stage and none was over $200/gallon.
In the end the easy part was the body work, filler work, and the sanding. You simply take your time. The hardest part, because of technique, was painting. Getting the fan just right, getting the right distance, and the right speed of gun movement took time to nail down especially along long panels. I have watched videos of guys whipping their guns around but it doesn't really work that way when you are trying to lay down a medium wet coat of either SS color or Clear coat.
Mike66Chryslers
Senior Member
I thought it was a very balanced and informative article. They describe what levels of perfection can be achieved and approximately how long it will take to get there. Knowing this, it's up to you to decide what level you're targeting. Then you can have a clear discussion when getting bodywork quotes or allocating your time, depending on who will be doing the work.
Sounds like you started with a solid rust-free and fairly accident-free car to begin with, you had the tools to do the job, and you had the ability to do it all yourself. It sounds like your bodywork was also done to a higher standard than the factory would have. How many hours did you put into the Polara, and does that jive with the estimates in the article for a similar level?
rapidtrans
Senior Member
The prep work is where the labor expense gets you.
Do it yourself if you’re comfortable with your ability and save a lot of money.
I’ve done all the prep work myself in the past then paid a shop to mask, prime and finish paint.
I good painter will ask you to sign a waiver releasing them from any issues later due to prep work.
I wasn’t looking for a show finish but it at least equalled the factory finish I was looking for.
Do it yourself if you’re comfortable with your ability and save a lot of money.
I’ve done all the prep work myself in the past then paid a shop to mask, prime and finish paint.
I good painter will ask you to sign a waiver releasing them from any issues later due to prep work.
I wasn’t looking for a show finish but it at least equalled the factory finish I was looking for.
Last edited:
Similar threads
