Uncle Tony's flat tappet woes of late
- Thread starter Turboomni
- Start date
Sealed power lifters are made by Eaton. They are made mostly in China and India. Otherwise known as white box China Crap, reboxed by various cam manufacturers and sealed power. Like most every thing else made in China, quality control is problematic at best and the roller cam stuff made there is not any better.
Dave
Dave
MoPar Maniac
Well-Known Member
Why is using a roller cam "cheaping out"?
They are more efficient and wear less than flat LIFTERS (not tappets. If your lifters are tapping you have a serious problem).
They are more efficient and wear less than flat LIFTERS (not tappets. If your lifters are tapping you have a serious problem).
Naw you misunderstood me. I meant Tony buying cheap roller cam setup. MEV had a catastrophic problem with a complete Comp Cams roller setup. I am going roller in my 505 ci stroker being built now and it ain't cheap!
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Hughes Engines retails the Johnson brand of lifters that are Made In America. Johnson Lifters Home Page
No "China Syndrome".
No "China Syndrome".
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Nothing wrong with a flat tappet cam. On a Mopar they can make good power and cost is no comparison to roller.
The problem arises when the Chinese lifters are not ground correctly, both the face and the body diameter. You have to check for rotation in mock up. If they will not rotate when no spring is on them they will not rotate when it is. If the lifter hangs in the bore and will not follow the cam with just it's weight it is too tight in the bore or a sharp edge, etc.
Rollers definitely make power. Hydraulic rollers are very heavy combined with the hokey link bar, longevity is a problem. No OEMs use a link bar. SS/AH cars use bushed lifter bores to have a keyway to prevent lifter from turning. It is the only way to get them to survive the 10,000+ RPM blast they see a couple times each run.
Even 5.7 gen 3 hemis are having durability issues with the roller loosening up in the lifter. This is mostly due to MDS system (IMO keeping your Gen3 out of Eco mode is smart for long term). They all have good and bad, but high quality parts is must when making demands on valvetrain parts.
I have a DC (Mopar Performance) dating the cam here 292/509 cam that has been in 3 different engines and is quite happy. No worn lifters or lobes. Made when we still knew how to make flat tappet cams and lifters.
The problem arises when the Chinese lifters are not ground correctly, both the face and the body diameter. You have to check for rotation in mock up. If they will not rotate when no spring is on them they will not rotate when it is. If the lifter hangs in the bore and will not follow the cam with just it's weight it is too tight in the bore or a sharp edge, etc.
Rollers definitely make power. Hydraulic rollers are very heavy combined with the hokey link bar, longevity is a problem. No OEMs use a link bar. SS/AH cars use bushed lifter bores to have a keyway to prevent lifter from turning. It is the only way to get them to survive the 10,000+ RPM blast they see a couple times each run.
Even 5.7 gen 3 hemis are having durability issues with the roller loosening up in the lifter. This is mostly due to MDS system (IMO keeping your Gen3 out of Eco mode is smart for long term). They all have good and bad, but high quality parts is must when making demands on valvetrain parts.
I have a DC (Mopar Performance) dating the cam here 292/509 cam that has been in 3 different engines and is quite happy. No worn lifters or lobes. Made when we still knew how to make flat tappet cams and lifters.
Mike66Chryslers
Senior Member
This makes me worried about a job that I have been putting off. I have a mild Comp cam and lifters in my convertible. A few of the lifters don't stay fully pumped-up once the engine is hot, make a clatter under the hood, and the the engine has a bit of rocking at idle. It hasn't gotten any worse over time but is frustrating. I bought some lifters off Rock Auto to swap-in and break-in the cam again with those. They are Sealed Power lifters.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Do you feel lucky?
The Rock Auto lifters are also going to be ChiCom units. And you do not want to put new lifters on a used camshaft as that will always end badly.
Dave
65Fury440
Senior Member
Comp Cam stuff probably isn't much better. It's a shame a guy can't build a motor without worrying about doing everything right and wiping it out.
Put a HFT Erson cam and lifters in the 383 in an old Chevy truck and they seem to be holding up. Fingers crossed and dipped in zinc.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
I will not mention some of the stuff I have gotten away with then.
65Fury440
Senior Member
In high school 3 of us shared a hot cam in 3 different cars over about a months time. We were alll just trying to make our cars as fast as we could with no money. We didn't change valve springs or anything, I don't even think we matched the lifters up to the corresponding lobe, cam is still in a 383 in a barn in Michigan in my old 68 Sport Fury. My friend still fires it up once in a while, still not flat.I will not mention some of the stuff I have gotten away with then.
65Fury440
Senior Member
That Tony guy doesn't give a crap about being fancy. 4 door B body? sure, lets put a 4 speed in it and beat the piss out of it.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Same stuff, with a fancy box. Only lifter I have ever had a problem with was a Comp. The cam was a ancient Crower piece that the lifters went rusty in their box. So I bought a set of Comp lifters. The lifter was rotating, the bottom just wore really strange and fast. It never gave a problem but the engine started having idle oil pressure problems (crank was worn so bad the clearance was enormous) came apart for a freshen up.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
He made the clutch pedal out of a spare brake pedal and some flat steel for brackets. That's my kind of cheap!
Old bearings, old rings, loose is fast and you need extra ring gap for the spray. Gotta love it!
65Fury440
Senior Member
He made the clutch pedal out of a spare brake pedal and some flat steel for brackets. That's my kind of cheap!
Old bearings, old rings, loose is fast and you need extra ring gap for the spray. Gotta love it!
I got the night off, just watching some of his stuff now. I like the channel, no fluff.
65Fury440
Senior Member
HAHA he has a chicken coop in his yard. My hero. My neighbors hate me, I can relate to this guy.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
I did not want to mention my youthful "put the lifters back on a swap meet cam" for fear Dave's head would explode.
As long as those 100,000+ mile springs are weak enough you can get away with a lot.
Plus they give you a rev limiter.
As long as those 100,000+ mile springs are weak enough you can get away with a lot.
Plus they give you a rev limiter.
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