MoPar Maniac
Well-Known Member
Hmmm...odd...I saw this same subject on another forum so I did some searching. What did I come up with? The same link as posted here.
Great minds think alike!
Great minds think alike!
They have way better heads and quench, they could make the ports larger and still controllable by the variable valve timing. They also ended up with improved quality assurance once the Germans released slow strangulation/suffocation.While I'm learning still as I build my first gen III project it's important to vet what year of engine as well as there's been a lot of incremental improvements 2004-2020. They are not the same engines over that time. Think about the little things that changed about big blocks from 58-79.
From what I understand the 09 and up engines have the obvious better performance but also better reliability.
I reread some stuff on moparts, lifters are improved after 2012, revised part number that you can buy over the counter today to retrofit
I concur with what you stated regarding TBN. I do this (analysis) on my vehicles.(after doing some catching up . . .)
Before I'd get all excited about a posted video, I'd FIRST look at the person's credentials on the subject being presented. I've seen a few videos about cylinder head castings, as to which is best and such, to be a bit flawed in the information, plus leaving out other information they probably were not aware of, as they weren't there when those particular castings were then-newer. BTAIM
Rust on a cylinder block, due to oil? TBN is "Total Base Number", relating to the acidic or base orientation of the oil. It WILL decrease as the oil is run in the engine, as the oil becomes a bit diluted with the acidic by-products of gasoline combustion. General rule, from the oil forums, is to change the oil before the TBN reaches 2.0. Most start in the 7.0-9.0 level. Check the "Used Oil Analysis" postings to see how it degrades in particular engines, with particular brands oi oil. Then check the "Virgin Oil Analysis" postings to see where it started. Using oil analysis to determine oil change intervals is how many large fleets determine when to do their oil changes, using the TBN as a guide. For example, when SM was replaced with SN, the generally lower TBN of the SN oils resulted in OCIs of 22K miles rather than 25K miles in one particular fleets situation.
As far as oil viscosity recommendations go, the OEM has to advocate that particular viscosities be used IF that's what they sued to certify the engines for EPA fuel economy and emissions certification. By observation, many VVT and/or "cylinder deactivation" engines will need lower viscosity oils compared to the engines without these features.
In the link to the camshaft failure discussion on another forum, it was mentioned that with a 5yr/60K powertrain warranty, the vehicle was suspected to be out of warranty in miles before the time limit occurred. As if that's what they "designed" things to now, as if FCA was playing that game in the camshaft longevity area ONLY. But we know that warranty length can be a marketing tool, but also can relate to warranty claims and their payment to the dealers. For the record, GM pickups are covered for 5yr/60K miles, too, at least of the 2017 models.
The reason I happened to find this out was that my company truck, a 2017 GMC Sierra Texas Edition, 5.3L V-8, came up with a new noise two days ago. A different noise that kind of sounded like a broken flywheel, but was more of a rubbing sound than an itching sound. Kind of like when our 6.0L needed a camshaft at 70K miles.
In this case, it was a lobe on cyl #8 that had a chink out of the top of the lobe. About the size of "( )", which was not all the way to the edge of the lobe. Not very deep, but I could feel a sharp edge on the area, which had a rough area within it. 59K miles of mixed city/highway miles. Regular maintenance at my work (GM dealer). Warranty tab was about $4800.00, I was told today. No score marks on the lobe, that one or any other one. This was also a non-ActiveFuel Management cylinder, fwiw.
For a long time, it'd had a dry squeak when I'd start it, cold or hot. I figured it was a dry starter bushing. We've got another such pickup that makes a similar noise. After hearing that truck start, I figured it was something new and normal. Squeak is now gone. Don't know if something was changed when the engine came out or not.
Chrysler, like GM, Ford, and others have their own oil specs, although many can be met by the same oil. European brands have their "Approval numbers" rather than the API (or similar) specs. For example, GM had a spec for normal motor oil, a spec for semi-syn oil (the original Dexos 1), and an older spec for the engines which were recommended to use Mobil 1. Probably similar with Ford and Chrysler, I suspect.
I suspect that what many might not fully understand is that the engine's internal environment is a very oil mist, from the vortex of oil spinning around the crankshaft, the oil flowing back from the rocker arm area, etc. We got along for ages with just splash lube of cam lobes, when they were "sliding" tappets on a cam lobe, rather than a roller camshaft.
Perhaps these roller cam failures might be more due to the intensity of the lobe's shape? Most of the modern cams have lifts of .500" or a bit more. Spring tensions have to be capable of living with that amount of lift for very long times, too.
As for failure rates, the best info would be the OEM's own warranty claims. Which would also probably indicate particular model years and mileages, on a bell-curve situation. Or, perhaps, "Consumer Reports" reliability data?
By observation, from other things over the years, warranty issues usually might happen for particular models/years, but those issues usually have a cyclical nature of only a few months in a particular model year, but still a typical time when they might fail under warranty. AND at what percentage of total production might fail!
It might be interesting to plot the failure rates in the particular model years and engine sizes. Rather than paint them with a broad brush.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
I concur with what you stated regarding TBN. I do this (analysis) on my vehicles.
Another point to throw in the 3+ ring circus is that manufacturers have not ‘warranteed ’ failures when the owner used Amsoil and met or exceeded the manufacturer’s documented (in the owner’s manual) service intervals. An Amsoil user, with Amsoil sued one of the big 3 for them not warrantee-ing the repair and won. My point is that the manufacturers are greedy and don’t like do it yourself-ers.
I understand that. Their desire to obtain my business is not the issue. The fact that they denied warrantee fulfillment because one services the vehicle with products that meet or exceed their recommendations (as documented in the owner’s manual) and are performed by a third party, is flat out wrong.Selling service is a critical part of their infrastructure. When the economy turns down selling service is what assures that there is a place to sell the product.
Selling service is a critical part of their infrastructure. When the economy turns down selling service is what assures that there is a place to sell the product.
True to an extent. A well run operation will have an Absorption Rate of 80% from the Fixed Operation side while the Sales Side is the gravy. Unfortunately lately with the Taj Mahals being built the AR has declined into the 60% range for most stores meaning that the Sales operation has to become better (in most cases more aggressive). Technicians have learned that they are an endangered species and will command an ever increasing proportion of the door rate in order to stay. We are often held hostage to our techs as we have a difficult time replacing them.It is the cornerstone of the dealer business plan.
The service department makes the majority of its money from the parts and service department, not the sales department. A 10 bay service department at $120 an hour per door is 1200 an hour. No way the sales department can touch that number.
Kevin
Another job that is no longer satisfying, and miserable at the same time. Guess that 120+ /he shop rate and the boss arguing with you every year about how they can't afford your raise is starting to come home to roost.Technicians have learned that they are an endangered species and will command an ever increasing proportion of the door rate in order to stay. We are often held hostage to our techs as we have a difficult time replacing them
I think this is what happened to the engine in a RAM1500 (Hemi, 8-speed) rental I had about 3 years ago. I don't know if oil contamination was an issue, but this was a fairly new truck. Rental places never keep their vehicles very long.A few things can happen that can cause this mechanism to break down, the most common of which is oil contamination (change your oil). When small pieces of dirt block the lube circuit, the lifter may not be able to change state, or the change may happen slower, or only partially. A common scenario with the MDS system in Hemis is where the ECM believes the lifter is engaged at higher rpm when it is not. Here, the internal pin that locks the lifter body to the plunger is still disengaged when the engine rpm goes up. In this failure mode, the roller follows the cam lobe, until it reaches an engine speed where it can't, and the roller crashes repeatedly on the lobe. Eventually, the lifter, roller, needle bearings, and the lobe surface become damaged to the point of failure.
I understand that. Their desire to obtain my business is not the issue. The fact that they denied warrantee fulfillment because one services the vehicle with products that meet or exceed their recommendations (as documented in the owner’s manual) and are performed by a third party, is flat out wrong.
I also realize that I am an outlier, but that doesn’t matter when the factual data and artifacts demonstrated compliance with their requirements.