QUESTION FOR THE AC EXPERTS

Ross Wooldridge

Old Man with a Hat
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What would cause an AC system that is apparently fully charged NOT cool effectively any more?

Here's the history:

The AC system in my 66 Chrysler T&C (dual AC) has been working splendidly for YEARS up to the last few months - meat locker cold under almost all conditions.

Back in the 90s the system was professionally converted to use R134A, and as that conversion was a bit of a new thing in the industry, getting the right charge weight was a challenge, and the result was not entirely satisfactory at first. However, things improved, and I got better results. However, by the end of a season, and certainly over each winter the R134A would leak out and I'd need a recharge (expensive). So I did some research and found that a lot of people got excellent results with Butane-based refrigerants like DuraCool. I was told that it was essentially a direct replacement (no evacuation and replacement of compressor oil etc), so I went ahead. DuraCool is easily found at my local Walmart up here in Canada, so I stocked up on a few sales, and still have a few cans left.

The results were spectacular. Excellent AC performance, MUCH longer charge life (2 YEARS as compared to 1 season before needing to add anything) and the I could do it myself. I keep a small thermometer in the vents, and if the vent temp starts not being as cold as usual (temps typically hover at 32 F and perhaps a bit cooler on a cooler day or a bit higher on a real scorcher), I'd just add another can of refrigerant, and the system would go right back to being freeze your cojones off cold.

Not any more. This summer the temp started creeping up at the vents, so I thought it was time to add another can. However, it wouldn't take it. I would think it would suck as much in as you could give it to the point of overcharging, but I couldn't get ANY to go in. I wasted one can thinking it was a faulty can, and the next one I tried did the same thing. I've currently got that can back on the shelf with the valve and hose assembly screwed down on it, and hopefully it won't leak down and I can use the can's contents later once I get things figured out.

As far as I can determine, the system is apparently fully charged. Due to its performance over the last few years, it certainly isn't overcharged...

So - what gives here?

Would an AC system require a periodic maintenance such as a complete evacuation, some sort of solvent flush to remove deposits and free up any internal things from being gummed up?

Looking forward to any of the AC pundits' responses.
 
Have you actually put a manifold low/high pressure gauge on it? Or are you just squeezing the trigger on one of the "refill" cans?
 
Really need manifold pressures and temps. Honestly sounds like system is too full, not getting the pressure drop into the evaporator thus no cooling
I'm assuming the compressor is turning.
 
Well, I'd tend to agree except that I don't know how it could have gotten too full after performing so excellently with what it's currently got in it. I haven't added anything.
 
As far as I know the system should effectively shut down if under pressure or over pressure. Maybe not on a car this old. But it could be that you had the system so close to being over pressured that a temp change pushed it over. Get a manifold set or find someone who has one. That's really the only way to start properly diagnosing the system.

I'm pretty sure you can find a decent set on amazon for under $100.
 
You need to start as noted by hooking up a service manifold to see what your operating pressures are. DuraKool is a propane-Butane blend along with minor amounts of other gasses. The only real issue with it aside from the flammable nature of the gases is that the lighter gases in the blend tend to leak out first leaving the denser gas behind. This can reduce the efficiency of the system. Assuming the system is not overcharged, there could be a problem with the compressor valve plate or the expansion valve. Again pressure numbers are needed. If this were my system, I would evacuate it, replace the filter dryer and recharge the system to see what I got from there.

Dave
 
Also change the compressor oil....

I recall that 134a conversions require removal of the EPR valve at the back (suction) of the compressor, and installation of a thermostat on the line going into the evaporator. R-12 systems are regulated by the EPR valve with the compressor always engaged, and 134a systems are regulated by cycling of the compressor via the T-stat. The "OEM AC guy" (I think his name was Curtis) at Vintage air helped me figure this out, although I ultimately kept my R-12 system.

https://www.vintageair.com/upgrading-a-vintage-air-r-12-system/
 
Also change the compressor oil....

I recall that 134a conversions require removal of the EPR valve at the back (suction) of the compressor, and installation of a thermostat on the line going into the evaporator. R-12 systems are regulated by the EPR valve with the compressor always engaged, and 134a systems are regulated by cycling of the compressor via the T-stat. The "OEM AC guy" (I think his name was Curtis) at Vintage air helped me figure this out, although I ultimately kept my R-12 system.

Upgrading A Vintage Air R-12 System - Vintage Air

The EPR valve needs to come out with a conversion from R-12 to R-134a. DuraKool is supposed to be a direct drop in and you probably should not need to remove the EPR valve. It takes a lot less DuraKool to charge the system that it does with R12 so be sure to use the conversion table on the DuraKool website to get to the correct charge.

Dave
 
Putting in the correct amount as advised on their website is what I did originally, and all worked well. Keep in mind that the EPR was removed prior to the use of DuraCool.

Again - I have not done anything differently or made sudden changes. All was working splendidly, and now it's not.
 
Did you ever change the expansion valve when you did the retro fit? Our cars are old and it's usually a good idea to change them out when retro fitting. I know it worked great until now but they are known to stick open or closed. A set of gauges is a must to diagnose A/C operation. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
No I didn't, but it's an easy replacement if I'm going to do a flush, dryer replacement and recharge...

Good info - that may be the source of the issue.

Thanks!
 
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