With infrared thermometer. This is the original
And this is my version. I pulled it out from the valley to get this pic. Underside has fiberglass.
I realized today that I don’t like my wagon.
- Thread starter Fast Eddie B
- Start date
With infrared thermometer. This is the original
And this is my version. I pulled it out from the valley to get this pic. Underside has fiberglass.
Very good.
Usually when I say "did you measure it?" followed by "how?", it turns out they never did anything and it's all seat of the pants, feel good, nonsensical BS.
So, kudos for actually taking a measurement... and kudos for saying "infrared thermometer" as a lot of guys think that the red laser pointer is what is doing the measurement.
Of course, I still go with the pad is there to quiet the engine down... and I have pulled them off engines from cars with no A/C, so there's that.
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
... Because I am in Buffalo is precisely why I have time to work on it! Too cold to do anything outside, no place to go inside thanks to 'rona and King Cuomo.
Today, maybe tomorrow, certainly by the weekend I will move the wagon over to the heated side. I have a set up to run cars indoors.
I burn only non-eth fuel. Tuned the carb for idle and mixture on a vac gauge when I did the ignition tune after installing the rebuilt carb. Car is running better and idling better than before, but hot starts are a mess. I am fairly certain I did all the checks on boiling, dripping, choke stuck etc over the summer... But maybe missed a few. I will make a list out of this feedback here and start simple to more complex. There are some things I def didn't check like the cross over, coil position, setting of atmospheric valve on the carb.
I'll keep y'all posted!
Yea, it's been snowing here in Syracuse and they declared it an "orange zone", whatever that means. Ill Duce is making sure we are being compliant and not having fun. At least my little town of Marcellus is still OK.
Just did a face plant in the snow while going out to get the mail... Good times...
Anyway, stick to basics. These cars ran for years without problems in their stock configuration. Just gotta figure out what's going on and decide how to fix the problem.
My 6-pack Cuda has a vapor separator from the factory and that was for vehicles with non-ethanol fuel (you said you don't use such fuel), so that could indeed be a reasonable solution using todays fuels in cars that weren't driven so hard. Like Big John says though, I also always check the obvious things before starting with the mods such as the separator. Remove the air cleaner carefully to avoid burns and using an extended mirror from a distance away, look down the throat of the carburetor when hot soaking and check whether you see fuel vapor rising or even raw fuel emanating from any part of the carburetor and going into the engine - that would be the first place to start IMO.
The phenolic bodies of the TQs weren't the best material to use for longevity and they can really stump you in trying to find the source of problems with them. Even the best rebuilders will not find a problem that causes them to run poorly because they only show up when they are hot. When they are right though and adjusted correctly, they run great.
The phenolic bodies of the TQs weren't the best material to use for longevity and they can really stump you in trying to find the source of problems with them. Even the best rebuilders will not find a problem that causes them to run poorly because they only show up when they are hot. When they are right though and adjusted correctly, they run great.
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
Right now I want to rule out anything but carb issues so if i go to FI, I won’t still have the problem. If it was running fine, I likely would go FI anyway! But now I’m not so sure!
78Brougham
"Chump"
Put an Eddy on it and be done with it. I've had this problem on two of my cars. I effed around and effed around for months thinking and adjusting and scratching, finally gave in. Bolted on the Eddy...No more problems.
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
Staging to start testing.
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
I’m Eddie. I’m on it. But I’ve always believed 2 ‘eds are better than one. What eddy did you put on?
78Brougham
"Chump"
This is the one that I bought. Actually twice. the last one was in 2017. You may not need the square to spread adaptor. I can't remember if the one below was for my 73 Imperial or my 67 Imperial. I'm sure you can figure it out.
Edelbrock 2696 Four-Hole Square-Bore to Spread-Bore Carburetor Adapter
Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
Return window closed on Aug 4, 2017
$22.05
Condition: New
Buy it again
Edelbrock 1481 Throttle Lever Adapter
Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
Return window closed on Aug 4, 2017
$12.43
Condition: New
Buy it again
Edelbrock 1406 Performer 600 CFM Square Bore 4-Barrel Air Valve Secondary Electric Choke Carburetor
Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
Return window closed on Aug 4, 2017
$334.95
Condition: New
Buy it again
Price: $364.95 & FREE Returns
Edelbrock 2696 Four-Hole Square-Bore to Spread-Bore Carburetor Adapter
Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
Return window closed on Aug 4, 2017
$22.05
Condition: New
Buy it again
Edelbrock 1481 Throttle Lever Adapter
Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
Return window closed on Aug 4, 2017
$12.43
Condition: New
Buy it again
Edelbrock 1406 Performer 600 CFM Square Bore 4-Barrel Air Valve Secondary Electric Choke Carburetor
Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
Return window closed on Aug 4, 2017
$334.95
Condition: New
Buy it again
Price: $364.95 & FREE Returns
did you have this problem before the carb rebuild?
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
Excellent question! Cold starts were tough. Seemed Fuel bowls Leaked out overnight and I was always pumping gas into them. Idle was uneven. Hot starts we’re still tough. And now still are.
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
Ok. Ran it up to 183 measured on the coolant. Intake at the carb body 110. Insulator from carb to intake. Carb was 98 degrees on the body. Coil sitting over top of intake at front, 110 degrees.
No boiling. No leak down. After 10 minutes, tried a restart. Jets squirted a bit of gas into carb. Peddle 1/4 way. Just cranked. Stopped. Pedal 1/2 way. Just crank. Put pedal to floor. Cranked. Stumbled. Started like it was flooded. A little pedaling, smoothed out as normal. All fine.
Shut it off. Key start only after 15 seconds. Shut off. No key start after a minute. Back to starting the hard way.
No egr valve. Found a ccev going to the carb but who knows if it works or what it does. Can’t even find out what it does searching online. Thinking I should take it out and see if it matters.
Anyone know what it does and if it could be causing issues like an egr would?
No boiling. No leak down. After 10 minutes, tried a restart. Jets squirted a bit of gas into carb. Peddle 1/4 way. Just cranked. Stopped. Pedal 1/2 way. Just crank. Put pedal to floor. Cranked. Stumbled. Started like it was flooded. A little pedaling, smoothed out as normal. All fine.
Shut it off. Key start only after 15 seconds. Shut off. No key start after a minute. Back to starting the hard way.
No egr valve. Found a ccev going to the carb but who knows if it works or what it does. Can’t even find out what it does searching online. Thinking I should take it out and see if it matters.
Anyone know what it does and if it could be causing issues like an egr would?
The hose going to the front of the carburetor controls an idle enrichment valve. When the engine is cold, additional idle enrichment is provided to improve idle quality and improves initial throttle response during normal accelerations when cold. When the engine is warm, there should be no vacuum going to the enrichment valve (and the round sintered metal piece in the line is just an air bleed to let the vacuum bleed off when the coolant valve is warmed up).
I question whether that valve in the airhorn of the carburetor is actually working correctly or whether the rebuilder even knows what it is used for. I wouldn't know either except that I worked in the fuel systems department when my training period was over (I got to rotate through 6 departments as part of a special program before I went permanent in fuel systems). When I worked in the department I got to know Jim Petit who was an engineer with Carter Carburetor and Gary Congdon from Holley who were stationed in the lab and they clued me into what was going on with the Lean Burn push that an ivory tower type of engineer named Gordon Fenn was pushing so Chrysler could avoid paying the money for a catalytic converter normally needed to meet upcoming emission standards. Both of the carb reps told me it was not possible to hold the lean tolerances required in production with current technology for those systems to perform reliably and give decent driveability. Gordon had no real world experience and was full of himself and convinced the chief engineer he could be a hero and save them a lot of money. We all know lean burn was a total flop and they still needed a catalyst anyway.
I say all this just to provide my advice having suffered through that period. Unless you have a really tough smog check program that requires cars as old as your wagon to be all original and pass smog check, I would definitely use a different carburetor, either an earlier TQ like from the 1972 era for a big block that is a known good runner or change over to something from Edelbrock such as their improved AVS2 models in the 650 CFM range. The flow curves in those carburetors will be decent and not the lean burn calibration junk that your carburetor has (if left original by your rebuilder).
What you are describing sounds like raw fuel is leaking into the engine on shut off (assuming all the other likely sources of a problem such as ignition related have all be checked out and found OK) and when really fully warm from some significant driving, when you lift the lid off the air cleaner (with the engine shut off) you should be seeing fuel vapor coming up from the carb bores until the bowls are empty. The plastic bodies of the TQs were known to develop internal leaks from cracks in the plastic bodies that opened up when warm but closed up when at normal room temperature and be hard to detect. The idle enrichment valve may also not be helping. It was only used a couple years as I recall.
Life is too short to keep messing around with the lousy carb unless smog check laws give you no choice....................good luck!
I question whether that valve in the airhorn of the carburetor is actually working correctly or whether the rebuilder even knows what it is used for. I wouldn't know either except that I worked in the fuel systems department when my training period was over (I got to rotate through 6 departments as part of a special program before I went permanent in fuel systems). When I worked in the department I got to know Jim Petit who was an engineer with Carter Carburetor and Gary Congdon from Holley who were stationed in the lab and they clued me into what was going on with the Lean Burn push that an ivory tower type of engineer named Gordon Fenn was pushing so Chrysler could avoid paying the money for a catalytic converter normally needed to meet upcoming emission standards. Both of the carb reps told me it was not possible to hold the lean tolerances required in production with current technology for those systems to perform reliably and give decent driveability. Gordon had no real world experience and was full of himself and convinced the chief engineer he could be a hero and save them a lot of money. We all know lean burn was a total flop and they still needed a catalyst anyway.
I say all this just to provide my advice having suffered through that period. Unless you have a really tough smog check program that requires cars as old as your wagon to be all original and pass smog check, I would definitely use a different carburetor, either an earlier TQ like from the 1972 era for a big block that is a known good runner or change over to something from Edelbrock such as their improved AVS2 models in the 650 CFM range. The flow curves in those carburetors will be decent and not the lean burn calibration junk that your carburetor has (if left original by your rebuilder).
What you are describing sounds like raw fuel is leaking into the engine on shut off (assuming all the other likely sources of a problem such as ignition related have all be checked out and found OK) and when really fully warm from some significant driving, when you lift the lid off the air cleaner (with the engine shut off) you should be seeing fuel vapor coming up from the carb bores until the bowls are empty. The plastic bodies of the TQs were known to develop internal leaks from cracks in the plastic bodies that opened up when warm but closed up when at normal room temperature and be hard to detect. The idle enrichment valve may also not be helping. It was only used a couple years as I recall.
Life is too short to keep messing around with the lousy carb unless smog check laws give you no choice....................good luck!
livininharrow
Senior Member
borrow an eddie from someone and swap it out and see what the result is. tqs either work or they dont as mentioned . good luck.
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
I was thinking I was alone thinking maybe the whole thing isn’t working since the repeal of Lean Burn. The whole engine is a Heinz 57. I like your thinking. I should have just replaced it before the rebuild of the carb. I counted 8 rebuilds in the shop from my rebuilder. All flawless but this. I think I will blame the carb. Thanks for the push.
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
livininharrow
Senior Member
then try a holley. cant hurt. i have one on my 340 4 speed 35 plymouth hot rod and it works fine.
The new Holleys are fine choices as well as Edelbrock - and some people I know prefer them as well. I just have no experience with their modern 4 bbls. All I can say is don't bother to try rebuilding an old original Holley - they were junk out of the factory after two years from warpage of the cheap metal they used in them and even if you plane the metering blocks even again, it won't be long before the problems show up again.
I do have a set of much newer Holley 6 pack carbs on my 440-6 Cuda though and they still run perfect after some 20 years after I restored the car. So I wouldn't have any reservations about the new 4 bbls either. I would try to find one with a bowl vent though.
I do have a set of much newer Holley 6 pack carbs on my 440-6 Cuda though and they still run perfect after some 20 years after I restored the car. So I wouldn't have any reservations about the new 4 bbls either. I would try to find one with a bowl vent though.
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