Stellantis

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As FCA, Peugeot Merge as Stellantis, Fate of Chrysler, Dodge Uncertain

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It's long been noted that the main reason that "other brands" would want Chrysler Corp was to get Dodge and its RAM pickups. Now, Jeep might be in that mix, too?

On the other hand, a few dynamics can be at play. We've noticed that the Chrysler large-car platrom was used by its parent company to underpin some of their existing Euro brands. Notably the 300/Charger platform. As we've seen almost NO promotion of the Chrysler brand in the USA, only Dodge and its tire smoking commercials. There is also a strong following for the (Dodge) Ram pickups, too. BUT, the Chrysler 300 is probably still around as it takes a certain amount of production from an assembly plant to make it pay for itself. Which the Chryslers are probably doing in the total production mix.

A common problem with some "heritage"-oriented name plates is keeping them fresh with each new upgrade/change to the body platform. Ford and Mustang are pretty good at this, but what about Camaro and Challenger in the future, for example? How to re-invent but still maintain the "flavor" in styling and concept? By observation, Ford and Chrysler have been more successful with that than GM has.

As when Chrysler was independent during the 1990s, it was minting "golden eggs" quite nicely. Every new model year brought more sales/profits from increased production of each new model . . . as stock prices seemed to double each time a new product appeared at the Detroit Auto Show, until it peaked just after the Mercedes "event". But even when it was owned by others, it was sitll making enough money to make it an attractive target for larger companies who needed cash AND to find out how Chrysler was doing what they were doing. And that still seems to be operative today, but to a lesser extent. Chrysler Group has been financially under-pinning many storied Euro brands, financially or by providing vehicle platforms for them.

The French brands might have some interesting tech that could be spread over most of the brands in Stellantis, but to further rely upon Chrysler Group for profits to fund these things might just be a continuation of milking the Chrysler "cow" until it's dead. As a seeming lack of production investment in Chrysler evolves, as Chrysler seems to be more of a niche brand than in the past. People are still buying Chryslers, but most people probably recognize "Dodge" and "RAM" more than Chrysler, as things have evolved.

Some have sought to take Chrysler more upscale with re-vived Imperials. But all of those attempts have not gone well, by observation. Chrysler might still target some Mercedes (and similar price-point brands), but not universally. As Merceds and BMW have greatly expanded their product offerings (small to large and SUV) over the past decades.

At the present time, Chrysler and Dodge OWN the rwd "sedan market". Which can also mean many upscale fleets, too. As other former sedan competitors have transformed into
SUV brands as their sedan platforms were evolutionarily replaced with SUV platforms. Buick would be an example, with a few smaller Buick models being produced in China (or similar).

Unfortunately, in Stellantis, Chrysler Group will become a member of a larger family of lower production Euro brands of vehicles, sold internationally. It would be easy to forget about it, except when the bank deposit origins are considered. Especially as new-coprorate operatives might be more focused on their Euro brands (as they have been in the past).

After watching the slow death of Oldsmobile by GM's various management blunders, then Mercury and Pontiac . . . ALL middle-class America brands . . . I don't want Chrysler to be in that "orphan" mix, too! That would be a shame, to me, but perhaps I'm prejudiced?

I sometimes wonder what Chrysler Corp COULD have become if Daimler had not gotten involved? Which had some side-dynamics in that mix, too.

Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67
 
I was hoping against hope that Walter P's great-grandson would somehow pull off a coup and get Chrysler away from the euros.
I knew it was just a pipe dream.....
 
Not a surprise to most of us here. There hasn’t been any focus on the Chrysler brand for years. Dodge has systematically eliminated models and garnered attention with high horsepower profit getters on older models. Only the Durango is built in the USA, so I don’t think the government would intervene. Now that Ford has announced 190,000 orders for the new Bronco, Jeep has something in their rear view mirror. As for Peugeot coming back to the USA, I don’t think it would do any better than Fiat. But just like when GM destroyed Oldsmobile (1897-2004), it was at a point where the public didn’t care.
 
It seems that very few of us are concerned about our local/national economies. We buy foreign products to save a dollar, forgetting that the folk we put out of work are our friends, neighbors and fellow countrymen (and women!). We embrace new (more frequently politically mandated) technologies that force some of our large employers to close up shop. We shop on-line and watch our retailers disappear.
And then we wonder why our manufacturing sector (Chrysler included) is raped and swallowed up by foreign companies.
It had been our industrial sector that has made us great. BTW I see America and Canada so closely related that we will succeed or fail together. If we allow this to continue, WE will be the "Third World" countries!!
I hope this is not too political.
God Bless BOTH our countries!!
 
One of the main issues here is that eventually, the Chrysler Group "large rwd platform" will need to be updated/replaced in the near future. Unless Stellantis desires to invest the money to do it and also use it for their larger Euro brands, it might not happen anyway. Just as the last-gen Chevy Impala was on the same platform as the Cadillac XTS, so TWO decent cars "die" rather than just one, as the Cadillac CT6 was the high-tech (expensive-construction) replacement for XTS. I suspect that the fancier Impala drained some sales from the XTS, too.

But then it seems that many import brands seem to use the same platform and powertrain far longer than any USA brand company ever could, except for light-duty pickup trucks in the '60-'80s. Just that such things can tend to go unnoticed by the general public AND such consistency gives them scales of economy in production so they can put more money into things like interiors and tech, things which DO get noticed. A "plan" which GM seems to be following in the past decade.

Problem that I perceive is that Stellantis has too many "obscure-to-American-buyer" brands with not a lot of production volume, compared to what USA brands USED to do. When Olds was deleted, as far as their sales had fallen, it was sitll much more than many "mainstream upscale import brands", as GM claimed they were losing money on each Oldsmobile they built (alongside other GM brands in the same plant). Hidden agendas at play!

Best thing for us to do is to do what we can to keep the Chrysler-brand spirit alive with our older Chryslers. Up to and including the more recent model years, too. A letter writing campaign to Stellantis might be of value?

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
 
It seems that very few of us are concerned about our local/national economies. We buy foreign products to save a dollar, forgetting that the folk we put out of work are our friends, neighbors and fellow countrymen (and women!). We embrace new (more frequently politically mandated) technologies that force some of our large employers to close up shop. We shop on-line and watch our retailers disappear.
And then we wonder why our manufacturing sector (Chrysler included) is raped and swallowed up by foreign companies.
It had been our industrial sector that has made us great. BTW I see America and Canada so closely related that we will succeed or fail together. If we allow this to continue, WE will be the "Third World" countries!!
I hope this is not too political.
God Bless BOTH our countries!!

We would become 2nd world country
 
I think Chrysler and Dodge are since a long time on a slow death.
When was the last time a real new model has been invented?
And those that came long ago failed mostly and are all already discontinued.

What is the Chrysler 300 and the Charger? Partly still running a Mercedes Chassis? Mostly cars invented already in 2004? Buy a new Chrysler and get a 17 year old technology. Same is valid for the Challenger. You are buying new cars which could be sold as "brand new classic cars". Buy a V8 gas guzzler while you still can.

Don't get me wrong. I like them more than any other new car (I just don't like modern cars in general). But they are old and outdated. They still have their fans and enthusiasts and they will be buillt as long as they can earn money with them. But just like the Ford Crown Victoria they will probably die at one point without replacement.

Carsten
 
I think Chrysler and Dodge are since a long time on a slow death.
When was the last time a real new model has been invented?
And those that came long ago failed mostly and are all already discontinued.

What is the Chrysler 300 and the Charger? Partly still running a Mercedes Chassis? Mostly cars invented already in 2004? Buy a new Chrysler and get a 17 year old technology. Same is valid for the Challenger. You are buying new cars which could be sold as "brand new classic cars". Buy a V8 gas guzzler while you still can.

Don't get me wrong. I like them more than any other new car (I just don't like modern cars in general). But they are old and outdated. They still have their fans and enthusiasts and they will be buillt as long as they can earn money with them. But just like the Ford Crown Victoria they will probably die at one point without replacement.

Carsten

Tavares owns a vintage car business so he appreciates the older brand images and with a wealth of up to date platforms with which to share models in Stellantis there are more new opportunities to develop current brands in the respective markets the new Corporation will be in. That means that Chysler and Dodge brands could be developed using common platforms at far less cost, yet allowing some creativity from brand managers to incorporate the feel, styling and other expectations that come along with the already known Dodge and Chrysler brands.

I read of late that Tavares is also rethinking introducing the Peugeot brand in the U.S. and instead will focus on remaking the current Dodge and Chrysler recognized brands. Very few folks in the U.S. recognize the Peugeot brand (or could even try to spell its name!) so why try to reinvent it here at considerable cost rather than just make a Chrysler or Dodge off the same platform where the brands are already established? The European platforms in the passenger car market are already very competitive and the current Pacifica is very competitive in the minivan market already here in the U.S. with both lower and higher level models now. The European brands in Stellantis already have smaller version CUVs (compact utility vehicles) that the Chrysler brand could use to enhance their current few offerings since that partricular segmant is red hot right now.

Yes, it could mean the elimination of the Dodge and Chrysler brands but it gives me hope that in the U.S. market, those brands could also thrive with all new platforms but with specific engineering and styling changes made to give the U.S. brands the needed character(s) that folks in the U.S. expect.

Both CarlosTavares and Mike Manley (current head of Chrysler/FCA) are well respected and capable leaders in both companies so I would not dash our hopes yet.......................

Both are also hard driving, smart and have proven success records.

I tend to look for the advantages of something new rather than assume it is something to be dreaded - and with a real merger of equals for the right motives, I am more hopeful for once that this is a merger that could actually work! The combination of brands under the Stellantis name would be larger than either GM or Ford, so that provides new opportunities that Chrysler never had in its past through more economies of scale. Most of my hope is focused on the established performance of both Tavares and Manley who will be hard to beat. Manley has been the force behind the success of both the Jeep and Ram brands and what a difference we have seen in the excellence and creativity of both of those brands that has made them roaring successes.

Sergio was correct at least about one thing, consolidation is inevitible to survive in the automobile world going forward. With electric vehicles being the future without a doubt anymore, having multiple new platforms that are state of the art in a competitive world is essential to survive and thrive. I personally believe both GM and Ford will need to merge as well to survive going forward. They really are too small on their own to make really heavy new investments and finding enough engineers in the U.S. is also not looking good either since our schools are not graduating all that many anymore because most families can't afford to make the investment in a college education. Only the rich kids can and they don't want to pursue such difficult majors.
 
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