66 Monaco Wagon Preservation

Check the FSM to see how many leaves the wagons are supposed to have and if any HD springs were optional. The EatonDetroitSpring.com will give specs for "ride rate" and such for each of their springs.

Get the front end height adjusted first. Then see how much out-of-parallel the rocker panel is with the flat road surface. An imaginary line from the rocker panel should intersect the front and rear wheel covers in the same place, too.

What tire pressure? Which can affect ride quality a good bit, especially impact harshness.

Which Monroes on the front? From when I removed the rear overload shocks on my '70 Monaco and then went with Gabriel Hi-Jackers (just to level things out), there was no real difference in ride quality, just that it was level, but it did act more like I'd put a rear sway bar on it in the corners. Just my experiences.

At this point in time, I kind of suspect that an OEM-spec '67-era ride is not truly attainable. Due to differences in what was OEM-spec on the cars and also available in the aftermarket (badk then) vs. what's out there now. Some NOS Monroe Super 500s would be nice to find, as would a set of 1970s Gabriel Striders (adjustable). Firm but not harsh.

Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67
Thanks, I will be checking the FSM and parts book. The height issue is subjective, if you look at the photo above your rocker panel line is pretty close to equal on the wheel covers but it just seems too low in the back to me. The Monroes are your basic cheap Amazon shocks and directly replaced similar failed shocks on the car. I don't want air shocks or load levelers as this car will not be a hauler.
 
Thank you immensely for starting this thread. I need to do all of what you've already done on my 66 T&C along with new paint. Here's my rear springs and drum. The drum measures 3" along the flat to the outside lip. The front drum is beefier and about 1/4"+ deeper.

View attachment 443273

View attachment 443274
Your spring is flat like mine, I assume they should have some degree of arch? Yours also has a helper spring on it, similar in purpose to my overload shocks.

DSCF3790.JPG
 
@Mntac - I'm interested in your cruise control unit. It doesn't look factory, as for 65-66 it would be a electro-mechanical unit like mine. I can see the two speedo cables, and some vacuum lines. What I can't see is how it controls the throttle. In mine it's a hard linkage that actually controls the gas pedal through a pivot that comes through the firewall from the gas pedal, and and connects to the servo unit, with no vacuum control whatsoever. It's controlled and the speed is set by a dial on the dash. How is yours controlled?
440 engine view.jpg


kilo autopilot dial.jpg
 
It's not original and I'm not even sure if it works, haven't tried it. The throttle is driven off that vacuum bellows on the firewall

20210304_133425.jpg
 
I did check through the shop manual and parts book regarding the rear springs. They describe how to check spring height but they give no dimension, only say if the height varies by more than 3/4" the low spring needs replacing. They also say: "It is normal for rear springs to show some reverse arch, even with no load, so appearance alone should not be reason for spring replacement." So I guess that answers my question on positive arch. Both standard and heavy duty springs were available on wagons but both have 6 1/2 leaves. The difference is that the HD springs used zinc interleaves rather than softer interliners. My car has remains of the softer material showing so apparently I have the standard duty.

I will check the front end height to see if it's too high, but if I lower it I assume that will soften the ride further and make the bottoming problem worse. Based on the tires the alignment seems to be good right now. Any other thoughts on upgraded shocks?

DSCF3792.JPG
 

By observation, many aftermarket cruise units had the "OFF" position on the inside of the stalk control, than what the OEM Chryler units did. The "bellows control" units were what GM and Ford used. Just that Ford used the ball-chain to run the throttle (for which a TSB/recall was done on some later-'60s cars as the chain could droop and snag on the normal throttle linkage. GM used a solid rod.

CBODY67
 

I looked through www.rockauto and the Monroe website the other night. Seems that the Monroe front and rear shocks all have a 1 3/16" piston diameter, but what I'd consider "unknown valving" (of sorts). All now-major shock brands seem to have the same descriptions of their products and some sort of speed-sensitive special valving. ALL shock valving has been this way since waaay long ago, but they now describe it as something new, high-tech, and desirable. Which tends to make me think that they are all the same internally, just painted differently? KYBs would be their own product, I highly suspect as I don't believe they have been bought and sold multiple times between the middle '60s and now? Just a suspicion.

In the shock's specs, you can determine the full-extended length and also the full-compressed length. As most 1960s-era suspensions were designed for "ride height" to be basically in the middle of the shock's travel, then measuring the shock's length (cL of bolt hole to cL of bolt hole) might give an indication of spring sag on the rear?

As I recall, if the C-body had factory a/c, they got upgraded torsioin bars (as determined by their spec diameter), which would make the "HD suspension" on the front be comprised of just "High Control" shocks, best I can tell, on factory a/c cars. Adding more pre-load to the torsion bar will make it a stiffer bar, from my experiences. But within the stated height specs, not a lot of difference.

In the realm of shock valving, most of the resistance is on the extension side of things, rather than the compression side of things. Independent of any internal gas charge features.

When I needed front shocks on the '67 Newport (after I bought it in 1981), I wanted something equivalemt to the old Super 500 hd shocks, as the Gabriel Striders (adjustable) had been discontinued by then. Their then-new RadialMatic shocks were their HD shock of choice at the time. I was not impressed with them as to their stiffness, but they seemed to work ok for what I was doing back then. I'm not sure how their current MonroeMatics or OESpectrum shocks compare to the earlier shocks (valving wise) other than the size of their internal pistons.

The reason I mentioned "tire pressure" was that I know that Chrysler sped'd different tire pressures for the wagons than sedans. Although the wagons might be a bit closer to 50/50 weight distribution with that extra weight over the rear axle. Which, on the wagons, included a very low front tire pressure, by comparison.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
 
TxDon, please empty some of your mailbox as it's "FULL".

Thanks,
CBODY67
 
I looked through www.rockauto and the Monroe website the other night. Seems that the Monroe front and rear shocks all have a 1 3/16" piston diameter, but what I'd consider "unknown valving" (of sorts). All now-major shock brands seem to have the same descriptions of their products and some sort of speed-sensitive special valving. ALL shock valving has been this way since waaay long ago, but they now describe it as something new, high-tech, and desirable. Which tends to make me think that they are all the same internally, just painted differently? KYBs would be their own product, I highly suspect as I don't believe they have been bought and sold multiple times between the middle '60s and now? Just a suspicion.

In the shock's specs, you can determine the full-extended length and also the full-compressed length. As most 1960s-era suspensions were designed for "ride height" to be basically in the middle of the shock's travel, then measuring the shock's length (cL of bolt hole to cL of bolt hole) might give an indication of spring sag on the rear?

As I recall, if the C-body had factory a/c, they got upgraded torsioin bars (as determined by their spec diameter), which would make the "HD suspension" on the front be comprised of just "High Control" shocks, best I can tell, on factory a/c cars. Adding more pre-load to the torsion bar will make it a stiffer bar, from my experiences. But within the stated height specs, not a lot of difference.

There were actually 3 torsion bars, regular, factory A/C, and heavy duty. I assume mine are the A/C choice.

In the realm of shock valving, most of the resistance is on the extension side of things, rather than the compression side of things. Independent of any internal gas charge features.

When I needed front shocks on the '67 Newport (after I bought it in 1981), I wanted something equivalemt to the old Super 500 hd shocks, as the Gabriel Striders (adjustable) had been discontinued by then. Their then-new RadialMatic shocks were their HD shock of choice at the time. I was not impressed with them as to their stiffness, but they seemed to work ok for what I was doing back then. I'm not sure how their current MonroeMatics or OESpectrum shocks compare to the earlier shocks (valving wise) other than the size of their internal pistons.

The reason I mentioned "tire pressure" was that I know that Chrysler sped'd different tire pressures for the wagons than sedans. Although the wagons might be a bit closer to 50/50 weight distribution with that extra weight over the rear axle. Which, on the wagons, included a very low front tire pressure, by comparison.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
Interesting. The best shocks I ever had on a car were Bilsteins specially designed for the 94-96 Chevy Caprice 9C1 police cars. They were designed to allow the cars to curb jump without bottoming or damage and yet support hard cornering as well. Not sure of the science but that car rode and handled the best of any big car I've owned. I will check to see what Bilstein offers.

You mention tire pressure. I have rather tiny 215-75-R14 tires on the car, about all that is available in 14" whitewalls these days. I keep the pressure pretty high, 32 in front and 35 in back, any lower and they still squeal on moderate turns. One of my possible future changes is 15" Magnum 500s with more generous sized tires.
 
Interesting. The best shocks I ever had on a car were Bilsteins specially designed for the 94-96 Chevy Caprice 9C1 police cars. They were designed to allow the cars to curb jump without bottoming or damage and yet support hard cornering as well. Not sure of the science but that car rode and handled the best of any big car I've owned. I will check to see what Bilstein offers.

You mention tire pressure. I have rather tiny 215-75-R14 tires on the car, about all that is available in 14" whitewalls these days. I keep the pressure pretty high, 32 in front and 35 in back, any lower and they still squeal on moderate turns. One of my possible future changes is 15" Magnum 500s with more generous sized tires.
What car were the shocks installed in?
 
In "SS" trim, they were known to be a factory-production 150mph car. Not too bad for as mild as that motor tended to be.

CBODY67
 
In "SS" trim, they were known to be a factory-production 150mph car. Not too bad for as mild as that motor tended to be.

CBODY67
The SS was built from the 9C1 package but it was heavier due to all the optional equipment and did not ride as well due to the DeCarbon shocks and low profile tires. The 9C1 also had many heavier duty chassis items than the SS. 150 mph was unlikely but the 9C1 was a real 140 mph car when it was new. I'll give it to you that the SS was a lot better looking. I had one of those too back in the day.
 
After quite bit of research and discussion on other threads I have decided to replace the shocks I have with KYB Gas-Adjust, just ordered them from RockAuto. I'll share the install and results down the road.
 
Some car owners humanize them by naming them, talking to them, etc. I have never done that but the one superstitious thing I do is never talk about selling them in their presence and the same with with buying another car. Silly? I don't think so. I bought another hobby car (1960 Buick) back in March but for many reasons did not actually receive it until this past Monday the 21st. The next day I wanted to check over the Buick so I got in the wagon to move it - and it was stone dead. Would not turn over or even click. This had happened to me before due to a bad ground cable connection so that was the first thing I checked, no obvious problems. Yesterday I pulled out the battery (Duralast Gold) and took it to Autozone for a test. They had to charge it before they could test it but told me it was OK. They also gave me the option of replacing it under warranty which I luckily took. Today I put the new battery in and it started right up - I think the old battery had an internal short. But this is a perfect example of one car showing it's jealousy at a new rival!

IMG_1411.JPG
 
Back
Top