1970 C-body 22" radiator shroud (P/N 2998 330 )

ayilar

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Time to reach out to the best and brightest on this forum.

Regina, my 1970 L-code (383-2) Polara 'vert, runs hot in stop-and-go traffic. The car was built with a BB but no A/C and, as such, came standard with a 22" radiator. The latter is likely under-dimensioned in any event ( @saforwardlook has shared his first-hand factory experience on that matter in several threads), but one thing that I want to try is to add a shroud.

A shroud seemingly exists for 22" C-bodies (P/N 2998330 in the parts manual), but it was not standard and (AFAICR) I've never seen a car like mine with one.

--> two questions:

1. Hope springs eternal, does anyone here have one with which they'd be willing to part?

2. I have not seen any repops for a 1970 C-body 22" fan, but I have seen two that must be close:
a. one for a 1969 C-body 22"-radiator shroud (P/N 2949130 and available from several places). Here are the dimensions from Mancini:
mancini-racing-radiator-fan-shroud-86.jpg


b. another for a 1970-1973 B and E bodies (P/N 2998328 and again available as repops from a number of vendors). Here are the dimensions of the repop sold by Mancini Racing. Note the difference in measurements with the above, especially on the left of the photo and the opening:
mancini-racing-radiator-fan-shroud-93.jpg


Question #2: would either of those two "work" on Regina?

Thanks in advance for the responses! @mdh157, you had issues with Madeline (similar setup), did your final solution involve a shroud? @1970cat you'd mentioned to make sure the shroud opening is centered, any thoughts here? @1970FuryConv -- you had started a thread on shrouds for non A/C 1970 C-bodies, any thoughts? @bnz84

PS: Poppy, her G-code sister, also used to run hot in traffic and adding a shroud and a 7-blade clutch fan has helped a lot. In her case, the shroud added came from a 1973 Fury yet it manages to look (almost) OEM. It is the only mod on that car.
 

Dobalovr

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As a FYI I can still get 26" Mopar shrouds P2785434 from the factory....
 

ayilar

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As a FYI I can still get 26" Mopar shrouds P2785434 from the factory....
Thank you! Unfortunately, what I need is the shroud for a 22" P/N 2998330 -- if you can locate one, beers are on me the next time I come to Calgary!
 

Dobalovr

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Thank you! Unfortunately, what I need is the shroud for a 22" P/N 2998330 -- if you can locate one, beers are on me the next time I come to Calgary!

Unfortunately that P/N does not come up anymore :(
 

MAGNUM77

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I will have to get the dimensions on mine and compare them to the to reproductions. If one of those are close it would probably work. I have a factory 22 inch shroud on my 71.
 

68 4spd Fury

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Not to be a downer but a 22inch, no A/C should be fine. A shroud might help but you may have a restricted flow in the radiator, looking at a re-core? Just my opinion.
 

MAGNUM77

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Not to be a downer but a 22inch, no A/C should be fine. A shroud might help but you may have a restricted flow in the radiator, looking at a re-core? Just my opinion.
I just had my recored etc… and it’s fine driving etc… stop and go traffic it will start running hot not to the point it’s overheating but it can get you nervous. When I was at Carlisle I would drop it in neutral and that helped.
 

LocuMob

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I just had my recored etc… and it’s fine driving etc… stop and go traffic it will start running hot not to the point it’s overheating but it can get you nervous. When I was at Carlisle I would drop it in neutral and that helped.
Thats how these cars work. We are so used to modern vehicles being right in the middle of the gauge, that we can start to worry if the gauge in our old ride creeps over that mark. A shroud wouldn't hurt though.
 

1970FuryConv

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@ayilar
My 70 Fury convertible had AC so it came with 26" radiator.
My 72 Fury coupe. I could not find a 22" shroud. I did not recore leaking 22" OEM because of expense, damage to threads for petcock, broken off reservoir port at filler neck. Car has 1968 727 trans, so already not original. Installed Champion EC2374 Aluminum Radiator, no shroud and no cooling problems even during 30 mile drives in 95° summer heat. Had to drill upper mounting bolt holes in radiator support panel. (paint colors are wrong, but car is too much fun to drive right now)
20181205_113545.jpg

20181205_115604.jpg
 

c-barge

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I believe Dave up in Canada with the restored B7 blue V-code SFGT used a repro '70 B-body shroud & mounting brackets on his original 22" radiator since the GT (like mine) never had a shroud.

Really no reason they shouldnt work considering the radiator hoses are identical to B-body as well.
 
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ayilar

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I just had my recored etc… and it’s fine driving etc… stop and go traffic it will start running hot not to the point it’s overheating but it can get you nervous. When I was at Carlisle I would drop it in neutral and that helped.
Thank you for sharing your experience. That’s what I do as well.

Thats how these cars work. We are so used to modern vehicles being right in the middle of the gauge, that we can start to worry if the gauge in our old ride creeps over that mark. A shroud wouldn't hurt though.
I have Medina and her 440 as a benchmark, which is why I’m going to add a shroud.

I believe Dave up in Canada with the restored B7 blue V-code SFGT used a repro '70 B-body shroud & mounting brackets on his original 22" radiator since the GT (like mine) never had a shroud.

Really no reason they shouldnt work considering the radiator hoses are identical to B-body as well.
Very helpful info. Thank you! Is there a thread or site where he describes his restoration?
 

polara71

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Thank you for sharing your experience. That’s what I do as well.


I have Medina and her 440 as a benchmark, which is why I’m going to add a shroud.

In my opinion that is a inefficient way to determine a " benchmark". All the temp gauges read differently from these cars. Your 71 gage will read differently than your 70. Hell, in fact one 70 will read differently than another 70.
Then there's the 440 comparison to a 383.
One might be a healthier cooling system or engine compared to the other.
I've always treated each old car differently. They are like kids , treat them as individuals and you'll get a better response/ result.
 

Ripinator

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Not to be a downer but a 22inch, no A/C should be fine. A shroud might help but you may have a restricted flow in the radiator, looking at a re-core? Just my opinion.

Yes. More food for thought: We tend to direct our attention at our radiators, when faced with an over heating issue, but ignore the possibility that the engine block may be a significant contributor to the problem. Given fifty years or more, a lot of crud builds up in the water passages of the engine block, due to infrequent coolant changes and the use of stop-leak additives, etc. Sometimes, if the block is not clogged too bad, it can be cleaned with a few cycles of a chemical cleaner, but for many engines with a sub-par or non-existent coolant maintenance history, the only solution is to disassemble the entire engine and have the block professionally boiled and cleaned.

The cooling system in my '66 300 convertible with a 440 TNT went through the above described professional cleaning process described above; the radiator was also professionally cleaned and repaired. In Carlisle traffic two weeks ago, the Autometer temp gauge never exceeded 180 degrees.
 

ayilar

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In my opinion that is a inefficient way to determine a " benchmark". All the temp gauges read differently from these cars. Your 71 gage will read differently than your 70. Hell, in fact one 70 will read differently than another 70. Then there's the 440 comparison to a 383.(...) I've always treated each old car differently.
Your point is well taken, here is why I made the comments I wrote.

There is the cross-section (one point in time, many cars) and then there is the time series (one car over time). With Medina, she never got anywhere close to hot in 2019 -- temp needle 2/3 of the way in the "safe zone" on the top gauge when keeping up with Chicago fast-lane highway traffic. By early summer 2020, she did run hot -- with the needle reaching the end of the "safe zone" at the same speeds. Rodding out the radiator solved the issue, and the needle since then (2020 and now 2021 to Carlisle) is back to where it used to be even at those speeds. So I am pretty comfortable in using her gauge as indicative of temps.

FWIW, I am also pretty sure that Regina runs hot in traffic -- the temp needle is exactly where I would expect it to be if I drive at the speed limit. Furthermore, the previous owner installed an electric fan, why would he do so in Canada, if the car did not run hot?

We tend to direct our attention at our radiators, when faced with an over heating issue, but ignore the possibility that the engine block may be a significant contributor to the problem. (...) for many engines with a sub-par or non-existent coolant maintenance history, the only solution is to disassemble the entire engine and have the block professionally boiled and cleaned.
Oh, I agree. But first things first. I will rod out the radiator and try adding a rad shroud. If the temps go back to the normal range, then I will assume the issue is fixed. If not, then I'll consider further steps.

FWIW, I ended up re-doing the top end (including new valves) on Poppy, my G-code 1970 Polara 'vert, after adding the shroud improved the situation but did not fully solve the problem. She only had 33k miles at the time (2 Carlisles ago), but I was told that a 318 that has been used for lots of small trips (likely what her history was, given the info I have about her from new -- I am the third owner) will get a lot of crud.
 

mdh157

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@ayilar Yes, I did have a shroud on the completed job. My problem was trying to find a replacement 26" radiator IIRC. I ended up finding a local place that dipped/repaired radiators. Now I am trying to get the same thing done on my Ambo radiator but that place has closed.
 

Big_John

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Yes. More food for thought: We tend to direct our attention at our radiators, when faced with an over heating issue, but ignore the possibility that the engine block may be a significant contributor to the problem. Given fifty years or more, a lot of crud builds up in the water passages of the engine block, due to infrequent coolant changes and the use of stop-leak additives, etc. Sometimes, if the block is not clogged too bad, it can be cleaned with a few cycles of a chemical cleaner, but for many engines with a sub-par or non-existent coolant maintenance history, the only solution is to disassemble the entire engine and have the block professionally boiled and cleaned.

The cooling system in my '66 300 convertible with a 440 TNT went through the above described professional cleaning process described above; the radiator was also professionally cleaned and repaired. In Carlisle traffic two weeks ago, the Autometer temp gauge never exceeded 180 degrees.
IMHO, most of the overheating issues I see here are just not getting all the details right. Your comment on cleaning the block for example. Then there's all the various rubber pieces that keep the air flowing through the rad, the fan/fan clutch, water pump, belts and on and on. Its all gotta work and I think a lot of guys just don't get that. Its a system.
 

sixpkrt

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This may be another source for your 22" fan shroud... linky: MrMoparts
The fan shroud prices are lower than Mancini's, but those radiator prices they have listed are crazy at + $1000 for a 26"!
 

bnz84

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If you are not a purist you could make a shroud that would be customized to your setup. My shroud was on a 22" radiator and when I got a 26" I just added left and right sheet metal to make the shroud bigger. The extensions are actually not that noticeable. Similarly you could make the entire shroud or find a junkyard shroud and adapt to your radiator. Probably not what your plan was but its an option.
 

ayilar

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I have found a photo of a used 2998 330 radiator fan shroud for 1970 22" C-body radiators. It is currently for sale in Europe, of all places:

1643498034934.png


Interestingly, I am unable to see in the above photo the small ridges on the driver/battery-side of the shroud in @MAGNUM77 's 1970 L-code Polara. His car is also a heater-only L-code car, and thus has a 22" rad — but his has a shroud and he kindly shared with me the below photo a few months ago:

IMG_3957 copy (1).jpeg
 
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