1972 Plymouth fury III suspension rebuild questions

MBar

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I am considering buying the PST super kit. I talked to them and it sounds pretty reasonable so I'm about to pull the trigger any other good reasonably priced alternatives?

I've looked over the manual but I'm sure I've seen reference to a link on how to do this if someone could get me that I would appreciate it.
Will I need any special tools?
Is there a hard part to this or is it the simple unbolting and bolting of components?
 
You'll need a upper ballpoint socket. In addition, a wide variety of deep and shallow sockets and wrenches will be an asset. Aside from that a pickle fork and 5lb sledge will make things easier. If you do the control arm bushings (upper and lower) you'll need a press or to take everything to a shop that has one and have them do it.

When done, make sure you get an alignment done.
 
For the lower control arm removal (pivot bushings, strut bushings) you'll need to bone up on how to remove the torsion bars. It's technically easy, but there is a special tool involved that DOES NOT include a ViseGrip. I once made that special tool with scrap steel and a muffler clamp, so once you understand what it's for it's not difficult to make one.

I assume you know for sure your front end basically shot, but how about play in the steering box? That puts you in the recent Firm Feel thread. Firm feel Power steering box
 
For the lower control arm removal (pivot bushings, strut bushings) you'll need to bone up on how to remove the torsion bars. It's technically easy, but there is a special tool involved that DOES NOT include a ViseGrip. I once made that special tool with scrap steel and a muffler clamp, so once you understand what it's for it's not difficult to make one.

I assume you know for sure your front end basically shot, but how about play in the steering box? That puts you in the recent Firm Feel thread. Firm feel Power steering box
I have the firm feel package that had suspension and steering. The rear leaf spring shackles are not correct in the firm feel - keep old ones with new bushing. I purchased the lower control arm supports to weld on. The old lower control arm on my car was cracked on the right. Firm feel products are very well made, very beefy and I am satisfied, but expensive.
 
Don't forget to ask for the discount for being a forum member here. :thumbsup:
Thanks for the tip... So that is a good kit?
I have the firm feel package that had suspension and steering. The rear leaf spring shackles are not correct in the firm feel - keep old ones with new bushing. I purchased the lower control arm supports to weld on. The old lower control arm on my car was cracked on the right. Firm feel products are very well made, very beefy and I am satisfied, but expensive.
I'm going as low budget as I can..truth is I needed this car like a hole in the head...it's been one thing after another so I need bang for the buck. I already have a 68 Newport in decent shape and I don't think I'm gonna put a ton of miles or any kind of abuse on the Fury..i just wanna have a safe car and when I look at the suspension all ball joints and ends etc.
are dried and cracked..
Looks like the Firm Feel is almost twice the cost...
 
Nice!! ..... What's a typical discount?
PST duplicates the original manufacturing of the Chrysler factory units. There is a write up on here somewhere by PST detailing this but i cant find it. Also the discount is 10 percent.
 
As for the special tool to remove the torsion bars. It seems that about 1/2 way toward the rear of the bar, there's a small step-up or change in bar diameter. This is where the special tool indexes. It's a bolt-together item of two halves. When bolted together and placed on that "step-up" in diameter, allows the tool to be used as the "hammer point" to dislodge the bar from the lower control arm point. Be sure to remove the snap ring at the rear of the bar, in the crossmember attachment location!

IF the vice grips are used, then as per the FSM, you'll need to dress down any tooth marks from the vice grips, then repaint that area. Takes out the stress risers and the paint prevents the resultant bare metal from rusting. A press will be needed to change the lower control arm pivot bushings.

New rear seals and the necessary grease, at the rear, are needed too.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
 
No pickle forks! They usually get the job done but have a tendency to let you know they did the job. Save them for the pickles and get a scissor style ball joint presser, works on ball joints, center links, tie rods and the like, without damaging dust boots. Not a huge deal if you're replacing everything, the Marr marks left from a pickle fork are. If you're picky.
 
IF the vice grips are used, then as per the FSM, you'll need to dress down any tooth marks from the vice grips, then repaint that area.
CBODY67

I must absolutely and totally disagree about the use of vice grips in any possible application on a spring (torsion or otherwise), and in doing so I must trot out my officially bestowed mechanical engineering degree, circa 1981. I know what makes a spring a spring (it was a whole damn semester!). For the most part--it's the outer diameter of the "wire" that gives that spring its characteristics. And it's also where the highest stress occurs in that steel. Tooth marks? Highest stress? You get the picture?

ANY possible compromises to that high-stress surface, due to ANY tooth marks due to using vice grips, is an utter abomination to that spring. It Will Fail. NOBODY can dress down a tooth mark on a spring. Never. Doing so is a joke, as the stress concentration is still there. It's a failure waiting to happen. The FSM direction on Page 2-6 to "dress down" any nicks or scratches is NOT due to the intentional use of a friggin' Vise Grip. This instruction is about small, light, unintentional marks on that bar. The tiniest nick on a spring is NOT GOOD, as per the FSM. Vice Grip damage? Jeeeeeze....

I wish I had my old homebrew remover so I could take a few pics to show how easy it is to make one, but I tossed it 20 years ago when I sold my Cuda. But here's my advice: Clamp it, don't Grip it. Got it?
 
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It IS preferred to use the Miller-Falls (at the time) special tool, which I have seen in other places, from other providers, to remove and install the torsion bars. NO doubt about that.

By observation, any failure from the stress risers from the vice grip "marks" will not be immediate, by observation, but years later, if at all. I have no doubt that the issue of the stress risers is important, but might the issue of "rust" from exposed metal spots/areas be more important? As the earlier failures of '57 bars, many years later, from the lack of grease inside of the seals at the rear of the bars, was from "rust"?

With a torsion bar being, basically, an unwound coil spring, what makes the torsion bars have a different ride quality than a coil spring of the same ride rate and load capacity? Just curious,.

CBODY67
 
As for the special tool to remove the torsion bars. It seems that about 1/2 way toward the rear of the bar, there's a small step-up or change in bar diameter. This is where the special tool indexes. It's a bolt-together item of two halves. When bolted together and placed on that "step-up" in diameter, allows the tool to be used as the "hammer point" to dislodge the bar from the lower control arm point. Be sure to remove the snap ring at the rear of the bar, in the crossmember attachment location!

IF the vice grips are used, then as per the FSM, you'll need to dress down any tooth marks from the vice grips, then repaint that area. Takes out the stress risers and the paint prevents the resultant bare metal from rusting. A press will be needed to change the lower control arm pivot bushings.

New rear seals and the necessary grease, at the rear, are needed too.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
I haven't reread the manual yet about that special tool but somewhere along the way on my reads, maybe here, I saw basically two pieces of hard wood clamped together.. I'm guessing the point is to create a surface that you can pound on without harming the bar?
 
It IS preferred to use the Miller-Falls (at the time) special tool, which I have seen in other places, from other providers, to remove and install the torsion bars. NO doubt about that.

By observation, any failure from the stress risers from the vice grip "marks" will not be immediate, by observation, but years later, if at all. I have no doubt that the issue of the stress risers is important, but might the issue of "rust" from exposed metal spots/areas be more important? As the earlier failures of '57 bars, many years later, from the lack of grease inside of the seals at the rear of the bars, was from "rust"?

With a torsion bar being, basically, an unwound coil spring, what makes the torsion bars have a different ride quality than a coil spring of the same ride rate and load capacity? Just curious,.

CBODY67

The failure won't be immediate, true. But you wanna depend on that? And how about when Grips were used to remove your bars in 1976?

A torsion bar is almost an unwound coil spring, with a few differences:
1) A coil both twists AND bends, allowing for a number of better characteristics to be designed into the spring. More mathematics to work with!
2) A torsion bar has only a linear spring rate, whereas a coil can be designed to be complexly progressive. Progressive is a very good thing (except in politics) where the more the spring is compressed the harder it pushes back. A torsion bar....nope. One rate through it's range of twist, period.
3) A coil spring is generally easier to build into a vehicle, in that it only needs simple, rigid pockets at each end to hold it in place, instead of the fussy mechanisms of our lower control arms, pivots, bushings, adjuster dohicky, etc. [It's certainly easily adjustable for us, but I strongly doubt that feature was the intent of the original designers of the T-bar system. Some method was needed to preload the T spring, just like a coil spring needs a compressing tool to install it.]

So why the T-bars in our Mopars? With the coming of the unibody design in the late 50s, there was no rigid structure above the front wheels for a spring pocket. It was just flimsy sheetmetal there. The only reason for the T-bar was the packaging aspect of the sturdy trans crossmember and the K-frame. It's ingenious, but not "better" than coils.

I don't know this for a fact, but perhaps because the torsion bar works at the INSIDE of the control arm vs. a coil which is out there near the tire has something to do with the feel that our butt-o-meters perceive.

Incidentally, lots of other cars used variations of the T-bar, but usually laterally across the car like the F-bod cars and Bugs did. Incidentally, a sway bar is a torsion spring. Again, the design intent and packaging mandates a torsion bar for that application.

I'm pretty happy with the 1.15g skidpad numbers that leaf springs provide for my Vette! :rolleyes:
 
I haven't reread the manual yet about that special tool but somewhere along the way on my reads, maybe here, I saw basically two pieces of hard wood clamped together.. I'm guessing the point is to create a surface that you can pound on without harming the bar?

Yes, absolutely.

If you can get a two blocks of nice hardwood (preferable to crappy 2x4 pine) and cut (chisel?) a V-groove in the clamping surfaces (maybe 3/8s deep?) and strongly clamp that to your bar, you'll have your rudimentary tool.

The only issue is how resistant a bar will be to removal after 50 years. If you're replacing the bushings, you can whack the forward end to hopefully unseat that crusty bar out of its pockets. But don't bash your radiator in the process....

I made a simple metal tool a long time ago, long since tossed out when I quit messin' with old Mopars in 1999 (Damn!). Maybe I'll sketch it and post.
 
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Why not just some sacrificial metal around the bar to protect it from the clamping ViceGrip jaws? As you would with any sensitive clamping situation (vice), to simple?
Granted bars that haven't been removed in 50 years may take a little more work (or a lot).
 
Why not just some sacrificial metal around the bar to protect it from the clamping ViceGrip jaws? As you would with any sensitive clamping situation (vice), to simple?
Granted bars that haven't been removed in 50 years may take a little more work (or a lot).

That's a perfectly good, simple method. I could picture two pieces of fairly thick aluminum shaped like parentheses. Or split a few inches of galvanized conduit maybe? If the "crusty" factor isn't terrible and you can get a square, decent whack on the Grips......should work!

Maybe two pairs of Grips on that protective collar, back to back for some serious clamping force. You really don't want anything to slip and mar that bar.
 
Here is a link to the discount that we offer to the members of this forum:

C Bodies Only Member's Discount

If you have any questions on the products that we offer please let me know.

Thanks
James From
PST Marketing
 
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