440 Priming the oil pump

Engine, Transmission & Driveline

  1. Yeahrightgreer

    Yeahrightgreer Senior Member

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    Hey gents,

    I’m going ahead and starting a 440 motor that has been sitting for about a year and a half. Motor turns by hand. I want to prime the engine before starting. Have a Chrysler priming tool coming through the mail tomorrow.

    So far I’ve marked the rotor and distributor position. Now to my question.

    When removing the drive gear (intermediate shaft) do I need to remember or mark it’s position in relation to the other gear? Or does it not matter when re-installing?

    AF97C420-7AA5-4CC9-A69B-D7EDBA1E63AD.jpeg
     
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  2. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    You need to put it back in the same position or your distributor clock will be off. Distributor is driven by the screw slot on the intermediate shaft. A chalk mark on the casting can be used to mark the orientation of the screw slot. If you have the FSM there is a section on how to line up the timing marks to get the position for the intermediate shaft correctly orientated, but you already have the distributor out so just use a chalk mark. Easily done with a straight edge over the top of the hole above the screw slot.

    Dave
     
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  3. rags

    rags Well-Known Member

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    purple shaft! hot rod?
     
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  4. 70bigblockdodge

    70bigblockdodge Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    If you set #1 to TDC mark, note where the rotor is pointed, #1 or #6 the oil pump drive shaft slot should be parallel with the cam or pretty damn close. When you put it back if it does not land where you want you can use a large screwdriver to turn it clockwise and it will tooth over, you can continue to turn it clockwise till you get it where you want it.
     
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  5. MAXWEDGECHAR

    MAXWEDGECHAR New Member

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    I used a Magic Marker and then forgot where I put the mark!
     
  6. Yeahrightgreer

    Yeahrightgreer Senior Member

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    Something like that :D sure not I’m a C-Body..... Yet....:p
     
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  7. Yeahrightgreer

    Yeahrightgreer Senior Member

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    Alright so more questions. I have heard very conflicting things on the process of priming.
    I’ve heard in the past that priming by just the pump will circulate fluid all the way to the top end. I have also heard opposite; that without cranking the motor, or spinning the cam at least 2 full rotations, the top end will not receive any lubrication.

    What’s y’all’s experience with this? Was planning on having a helper or using a remote starter while priming.
     
  8. The Goose

    The Goose Senior Member

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    You just want a good high speed drill that can turn that tool. You want to copy the 2000 rpm break in oil procedure that’s all. With that tool and a high speed drill - going in the right direction Lol!!! I think backwards lifts the gear out. Watch the oil pressure gauge and keep it up until oil gets everywhere. Pull a valve cover to confirm the top end but I’ve only ever really worried about the camshaft.

    What type of pump drive shaft you got? Nows the time to buy some cheep insurance and get a shaft with the rounded shoulder. I don’t own the sharp edge type so I stole an example off the net. The rounded shoulder is less apt to twist or twist/snap off. Dave can weigh in here but the pics should speak for themselves.

    Good luck man. Sounds like fun I love fire up days !!!!

    A581E946-624F-4B03-85A1-89994000491C.jpeg

    Ignore that text. Sorry it should say if your pump drive end looks like this throw them both away Lol!!! That text muddies the water and my fault for not taking it off bud.

    B6BB1F13-FF84-43D2-9710-53C8B1228EF8.jpeg

    FYI this is off my TA 340 not big block just a good example of the rounded end. It’s been on the kitchen counter as a paper weight for 11 years Lol!!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
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  9. Big_John

    Big_John Illegitimi non carborundum FCBO Gold Member

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    The way I've always done it is to spin the pump (counterclockwise with a big block, clockwise with a small block) and start rotating the engine once it develops pressure. The better way is to have someone rotating it while you run the drill... or even jumping the starter relay will work.

    You really don't need to spin the pump very fast to do this. If you think about it, the camshaft is driven half speed of the engine and the cam drives the oiul pump. At 500 RPM engine speed, the oil pump is only spinning 250 RPM. You'll know when the pump starts working (read, hang on to drill LOL). I think my old 1/2" Craftsman drill spins at 750 RPM. All you are trying to accomplish is priming the pump and filling the passages with oil. This creates oil pressure as soon as you fire the engine. If you've lubed everything when you put it together and primed the pump, it'll all be fine.

    Also, take a look at your FSM, there is a picture showing where the slot in the oil pump drive should be pointing when at #1 TDC.
     
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  10. Polara_500

    Polara_500 Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    But yes, the engine needs to be rotated while you're maintaining oil pressure - the oil galleries go through the cam shaft and only pass oil to the lifters at specific intervals and each side is a different time. There is a nice diagram in the FSM that shows the oil flows.
     
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  11. The Goose

    The Goose Senior Member

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    I agree on rotating the motor sorry thought that was a “given”. What I’m trying to impress is you need to turn the oil pump. Really turn it to mock a 2000 rpm break in oil pressure wise at the gauge. More people than we care to admit think it’s cool to oil up an engine with the dang starter motor. It’s safe if we pull the coil wire because it now ain’t firing. Come on guys we all know someone who's done this. They just don’t know any better. I’ve always got pressure at the gauge when priming an engine. You’re better off dumping gas and reving it up to 2 grand than trying to prime w the starter motor. And if you do decide to do the dump gas and fire method idle speed will not cut it. Gotta rev it up to get oil everywhere. If you “baby” it at idle until you feel it’s safe to rev you’ve already blown it brother. I don’t know anyone who’d warm up an engine then try to break it in Lol !!! You see it on you tube all the time. “ we got it started now let’s let it idle a bit and see how it does once it’s warmed up... ” Weesh man rev that sucker up!!!
     
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  12. Big_John

    Big_John Illegitimi non carborundum FCBO Gold Member

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    Actually, I wasn't responding to your post, although I disagree that you have to spin the oil pump that fast with a drill. All you are doing is "priming" or filling the oil pump and passages.

    But what do I know... Only done a few dozen times. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
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  13. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    For a stock engine, the factory intermediate shaft is fine. For a high performance, high RPM engine or a high volume, high pressure oil pump. the "improved" intermediate shaft is a must as it is made of better material to take the increased load. As noted if the shoulders show wear replace the shaft, better than finding out the hard way if it fails. Intermediate shaft failures are pretty rare, but why take the chance.

    Dave
     
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  14. The Goose

    The Goose Senior Member

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    Thanks brother. Every bit of info helps the young guns get it done right. We always did that so it would show pressure on the gauge. That’s how dad showed us and he owned a Texaco on 66 in Winslow Az.

    I got spanked for telling someone on here a lever type radiator cap should only be used on an open system. I guess you can put it on a closed loop cooling system too but not at my house Lol!!! My dad would kick our ass if we put lever type on anything but an open / street dump system. He said that it was wrong & I followed that rule for forty some odd years. I’ll still never put a lever type rad cap on closed system. At least not without lookin over my shoulder & he’s been gone for 20 years now.

    Old dogs & new tricks. This site is the best car help I’ve ever found on the net.
     
  15. 70bigblockdodge

    70bigblockdodge Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    Few things from above.
    Oil pump is a positive displacement pump, so it is moving the same amount at 5 Psi or 35 psi makes no difference on a non running engine.
    You do have to rotate the crank 2 revolutions to oil the rocker shafts. IMO this is important on a fresh engine because you are going immediately to 2000+ rpm and making a high demand on the rocker arm - shaft interface that only has timed oil supply and a lot of air in the inside of the shaft.
    The performance drive shaft is overkill for a stock oil pump, it is also cheap insurance. Not only is the hex sharp edges removed but the area is heat treated, and the gear is pinned on the shaft. Your call.
    The oil pump drive shaft slot is parallel to the cam at TDC period. (Points at the left front#1 cylinder area on a small block)
     
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  16. rags

    rags Well-Known Member

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    is the camshaft broken in? if not, should it be recoated with break-in lube after sitting for 18 months?
     
  17. Yeahrightgreer

    Yeahrightgreer Senior Member

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    Y’all are great as always. Hopefully gonna fire it up today.

    Looks like shaft is stock style. May upgrade it in some time. Engine is set up slightly over stock. 450 HP range. Motor has been broken in. Was a strong street running engine before being put to sleep for quite a while.

    546DB671-7C39-49A1-990F-5817B1CF90F4.jpeg
     
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  18. Yeahrightgreer

    Yeahrightgreer Senior Member

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    Anything else y’all thing I should look into check before starting up?
    Filled radiator, replaced oil and filter, replaced battery, checked plugs and wires, drained old gas and refilled with 93.
     
  19. 70bigblockdodge

    70bigblockdodge Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    Even though it is previously run/broken in I would start and hold at a high idle for the warm up time to ensure enough splash lubrication of the cam lobes, I try to do this on my spring start ups, avoid long cranking.
     
  20. Yeahrightgreer

    Yeahrightgreer Senior Member

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    So started priming the engine tonight. Pressure builds up to about 60+ The only problem is Oil doesn’t seem to be coming to the top end. Specifically not seeing any oil come out of the top holes on the rocker arms. Doesn’t look like the springs neither.

    I do not have the valve covers off to check (there’s some super weird bolts and nuts that I’ll need to go get other tools another day for) but I can see Cylinders 6 & 8 inside via the oil filler hole.

    I had someone turn over the engine to see if it made a difference while priming and didn’t. I opened up the oil filter to make sure there wasn’t any air bubbles and oil is shooting out while priming. I didn’t wanna start it with any doubts