1. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    I now have another issue after sorting the carb soak heat problem. Closed the crossover and added a 1" spacer to bas of carb. I have also added a new hi torque starter. Here are my symptoms....
    1. when starting when hot, it spins over quickly but does not attempt to fire off until I let go of the key. Only once I let go of the key does the engine sound like its firing any cylinder and then once one seems to light off it will rumble to life.
    2. When pulling away from a stop the first 10-20' the engine may die, or stall and slow and then rocket off. While driving at cruising speeds or anything above starting out it does not act like this.
    3. There now seems to be a miss at all speeds.

    The engine has an electronic ignition with the orange box. I am thinking all this stems from a possibly bad electronics, and or cheap electronic system. Would a bad electrical system cause all this? What else should I be looking for to cause this?
     
  2. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Depending on which electronic ignition (factory or repop?) you have installed, check the following:

    1.) Orange box units repoped in China are a POS.
    2.) Since the vehicle refuses to start in the "start" position, Check to see if you are getting voltage to the unit with the key in the start position. This is a two person job. Disconnect the starter lead so that the engine does not flood and see if there is voltage to the coil with the key in the start position. If not you have a wiring problem someplace.
    3.) If there is voltage to the coil, refer to #1.
    4.) You have a misfire. Check the ground to the orange box. Electronics hate a bad ground. Same is true for the Negative cable on the battery. Check all connections to the orange box and coil to be sure they are clean and tight.
    5.) If you have a spare coil, you might try swapping to see if the engine runs better as the symptom you describe pulling away from a dead stop could also be a weak and failing coil. Could also be a failing pickup module.

    There are a lot of other things that could be wrong, but my first choice would be an imported orange box unit, they are bad enough, that I will not use them.

    Dave
     
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  3. Big_John

    Big_John Illegitimi non carborundum FCBO Gold Member

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    Let's address this one. I assume you have a dual ballast resistor. That would be a classic bad ballast, but ONLY if you have a dual ballast. If not a dual, you aren't getting current to the ignition box when the key is in "start" position. That could be a wiring problem or an ignition switch problem.
     
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  4. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    The ballast resistor that is mounted on the firewall has just two prongs, so i assume its not a dual ballast but a single.

    I will check the coil voltage as well to see what i find.
     
  5. Big_John

    Big_John Illegitimi non carborundum FCBO Gold Member

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    That is correct, it is a single.
     
  6. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    When we first started doing these conversions in the mid '70's, the new ballast resistor, a two pin type was supplied with the conversion kit. The brain box could either be installed on the firewall or the core support. We found out pretty quickly that the core support was the better location because heat from the exhaust pipes would cook the units mounted on the firewall when the vehicle was operated in heavy, slow traffic. Not enough air flow to dissipate the heat.

    Dave
     
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  7. detmatt

    detmatt Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    Keep on track with what these guys are telling you and once you’ve either fixed or ruled out the electrical gremlin check the length of your fuel pump pushrod.
     
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  8. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Your push rod thread is always in the back of my mind to check as well. Guess I would need a gasket to pull the pump and check?
     
  9. detmatt

    detmatt Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    Yes, if that’s not sealed it will make an oily mess.
     
  10. Big_John

    Big_John Illegitimi non carborundum FCBO Gold Member

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    You can do a volume check with a soda bottle and a rubber hose.

    Take the coil wire off, unhook the fuel line and run a rubber hose to the bottle. Crank the engine over for a few seconds. It should push a bunch of gas into that bottle. If it does, your pump and pump rod are fine.
     
  11. traintech55

    traintech55 Senior Member

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    Of your three problems,
    1. This is definitely an electrical problem, do what has been suggested in other posts.
    2. This sounds like an accelerator pump problem, with the engine off move the throttle and see if you are getting a good shot of fuel out of the nozzles.
    3. This also sounds electrical, but in the secondary circuit, not the primary. It could be a bad control module, but it could also be a warped shaft in the distributor. see if you can figure out which cylinder is missing. #s 7 and 8 are the normal ones as the wire leads run behind the engine. Keep us posted.
     
  12. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    How can you find which cylinder has the miss?
     
  13. 70bigblockdodge

    70bigblockdodge Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    Any of the above is good to check. My experience with a hard, hot start on a electronic ignition.
    1. Grounding of the ECU
    2. Pick up coil in the distributor. Air gap should be .008, measured with a non metallic feeler guage. If it is on the large side it can get larger when distributor is hot inside.
     
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  14. traintech55

    traintech55 Senior Member

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    Start out with checking the leads for burnt spots. Next since the engine runs, WITH THE ENGINE OFF, remove one lead from the distributor cap and then start the car. this will keep the spark from jumping to ground. you will not notice any change in running when you get to the bad cylinder.
     
  15. WissaMan

    WissaMan Member

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    Definitely check this. eimage?url=https:%2F%2Fwww.shareicon.net%2Fdata%2F256x256%2F2016%2F06%2F20%2F783598_hand_512x512.png

    After we installed electronic ignition on our 440, we experienced the same symptom where it wouldn't start as long as it was cranking, but as soon as you'd leave go of the ignition key, it would catch and sometimes start.

    The air gap in our distributor was way over .008. Once adjusted to .008, it started perfectly. It was my goof -- the install instructions say to check/adjust it, but I didn't read them carefully enough :BangHead:
     
  16. jct

    jct Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    R.T.F.M.
     
  17. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    I checked my air gap. I did not have a non metallic feeler gauge so I just used what I had. The largest I had was a .025 and it slipped inbetween. I readjusted the air gap to .008. I’ll test it on the drive to work tomorrow.

    One thing I did notice was the center “button” on the underside of the distributor cap is chipped. It has at least 40% of the smooth “button” chipped off leaving a very rough surface. Would those cause issues as well?
     
  18. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Check the distributor shaft end play. Excessive end play will make the shaft bounce up and down and will sometimes damage rotors or caps.

    Dave
     
  19. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    I measure about .04" endplay while its on the motor. I cranked it over and it fire up much faster than it ever has but this was on a cold engine. Ill test it with a 15 mile drive to work and a 2hr heat soak before it gets fired back up for the return trip....Just a 2hr job in the morning....
     
  20. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    End play should be checked with the distributor assembled but out of the engine. .003-.017 is the spec for end play with a max of .003 for side to side play. Caps can also get torn up if the cap is not properly seated on the distributor.

    Dave