440 won't fire up properly.

[Axel Wåhlin]

After restoration of the engine It doesn't start up, just shooting up flames through the carburetor and for short moment's run on a couple of cylinders and stops with a bang. TDC is correct, if I turn the distributor 180 degrees, there's no life at all. I have a mopar orange box ignition system. If I measure between the battery ground and (+) at the ignition coil, there is 6,5 Volt. My question is what should it be and could the low voltage at the coil be the reason for this behavior?
Thank's in advance!

 

[saylor]

have an extinguisher handy, and wire/ bolt cutters to cut the battery cable if it catches fire, or a hat to cover the carb.

not knowing what you are working with besides a 440 and a orange box - set the base timing to 10-12BTDC and try.

its probably timing. COULD be carb.

if there is enough volts to make a fire things should happen. 6.5v with key on and engine off is not out or range i dont think.

can you post a pic of the timing mark in relation to the timing gauge?

get here and things should go pow


try not to die -

- saylor

 

[Davea Lux]

While you are trying not to die, a common cause of a failure to fire off after a rebuild is that the timing is set 180 degrees off. Backfiring and farting thru the carb is a dead give away. Check this by installing a compression gauge on #1 and turn the engine over by hand until you have compression. Now line up the timing mark to the proper setting and the distributor rotor should be pointing to number one wire on the cap. If it is not, the distributor was set 180 off. Remove the distributor and rotate the clock 180 degrees and it should now fire up assuming the distributor is wired correctly. While you are at it be sure the plug wires are in the proper rotation as well.

Dave

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

As stated above...^^^^^^^

FWIW......you might also want to re-check your plug wires firing order. A 440 is of course wired CCW, not CW. Just possibly this could be your problem???

 

[65sporty]

These guy's have given you a great starting point, I have nothing to add. Report back with the results

 

[1970FuryConv]

While you are trying not to die, a common cause of a failure to fire off after a rebuild is that the timing is set 180 degrees off. Backfiring and farting thru the carb is a dead give away. Check this by installing a compression gauge on #1 and turn the engine over by hand until you have compression. Now line up the timing mark to the proper setting and the distributor rotor should be pointing to number one wire on the cap. If it is not, the distributor was set 180 off. Remove the distributor and rotate the clock 180 degrees and it should now fire up assuming the distributor is wired correctly. While you are at it be sure the plug wires are in the proper rotation as well. Dave

If lacking a compression gauge, you can remove #1 spark plug and have an assistant hand crank the engine, clockwise as you face the front of it. Put your finger over the spark plug hole. You will feel pressure on the compression stroke and nothing on the exhaust stroke. Stick a piece of coathanger down into the cylinder 1 once you have ID'd compression stroke. As your assistant hand cranks engine, you will feel a pause at TDC. Stop your assistant. Turn the crank counter clockwise until the mark is at 10°BTDC, like @saylor picture. That should get you started. provided your spark plug order is counter clockwise as you face top of distributor 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. Idle crews on carb can be about 1.5 turns out. Good luck.
My 440, rebuilt and started and burning tires this year.

 

[69PHOENIX]

G'Day,
I can remember 30 Years Ago trying ti fire up a Rebuilt 440, spent an hour with the thing backfiring & carrying on, only to discover my Helper, who had clean hands, had written down the Firing order with the last two cylinders transposed. LOL.
Double Check!
Regards Tony.M

 

[ricks_RR]

hope who built the motor put the timing chain and gears in the right order . fire thru the carb is not good i just built my 440 and it fired right up

 

[Axel Wåhlin]

Ok, thanks for all the comments. I found that the ignition was really wrong, something that several of you suggested. Now I have adjusted it to 10-12 BTDC.
When the weather gets a little better here in Sweden, I will try again...

 

[saylor]

right now your distributor rotor should be pointing somewhere over near 8 oclock on a clock face. #1 cyl. the distributor drive gear underneath has a cavity on top what the distributor shaft stabs into. that cavity on top of the gear should be running parallel long with the engine. you can use a big screwdriver and turn this gear left counterclockwise and walk it around til its in the right spot, if its not in the right spot.

id fire that thing up now at 2am or whatever it is where you are i couldnt wait

 

[saylor]

spin up the oil pressure if you havent yet. and you have break in oil in there yes?

 

[Axel Wåhlin]

The distributor looks like this at 10-12 BTDC. I've spun up the oil pressure, thank you for your consideration.

 

[C Sickness]

Either you're currently set near TDC on the exhaust stroke, or someone has disturbed the way the wires are plugged in on the distributor cap. You have to locate where the #1 wire is plugged in on the distributor cap, and make sure the rotor (metal end) points to that on the Compression stroke.

#1 cylinder is the one all the way at the front of the car on the driver's side.

 

[Sixpactogo]

It appears to me that the distributor gear is not in its proper place. Like was mentioned in post 10, the slot in the top of the gear running the distributor should be running parallel with the engine. That puts #1 plug wire and the rotor at 6 o'clock when standing in front of the engine. Providing the engine is at top dead center minus 10 degrees. In pic 12 it looks like the rotor is a couple cogs too far counter clockwise. (pointing at 1 o'clock in the pic) Rotor should be between 5 and 6 o'clock in that pic. You need to pull the distributor and walk that gear around counterclockwise until it is parallel. Then check your plug wires to see if the firing order is correct.
Or: You could change all your wires starting with #1 plug wire at 1 o'clock (where the rotor points to now) then plug them in to the correct firing order if you don't want to rotate the gear to the proper place.

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

.....Or: You could change all your wires starting with #1 plug wire at 1 o'clock (where the rotor points to now) then plug them in to the correct firing order if you don't want to rotate the gear to the proper place.

I agree with your post, with the exception of this last part.

If the distributor position and plug wiring is not done as per the factory method, you may well run into an interference problem when trying to set up timing advance later on. Sometimes when rotating the distributor to set advance, the vacuum canister will interfere and keep you from being able to advance the timing to where you want it if the distributor isn't oriented properly. Yes, it will run the way you described but it may cause this timing problem due to the improper orientation.

Best all around to orient and wire the distributor and plug wires the way the factory originally did it.


Like this diagram, only turn the diagram upside down to make it look more like it would if you were on the passenger side looking down at the top of the distributor.

 

[stubs300]

You could even give it a couple more degrees of timing and it still won't kill you. Not knowing what cam you're runnin will it definitely help get it fired up and running. Final timing & tuning can come after break-in.
Here's a checklist so you don't screw up. Good luck
Moparts on the Web - Main Index

 

[saylor]

see that pic above ^^ cyl#1 is over 7-8 oclock your rotor firing end should be over there somewhere.
the dizzy turns twice to a motor turn 2:1
the motor turns clockwise
the dizzy turns counterclockwise
on THESE motors.

you can loosen up the spark plugs and pull the coil wire then spin the motor to TDC #1. use a wood dowel down the #1 spark plug hole - someone said use a coat hanger i dont think a wire is a good choice here. you will know when its coming up dont poke your eye out. if you put a finger over the hole it easily will push your finger off when its coming up to TDC.

when you know you have good TDC on #1, yank the dizzy out and look at the gear underneath. it should be in line / parallel long with the motor. i have a pic somewhere here in the forum but cannot find it presently. it is also illustrated in the FSM.

if the distributor gear shaft slot is not in parallel, you can use a large blade screwdriver and walk the gear until it is in the correct position. then restab the distributor, tighten the hold down, put the coil wire back, tighten plugs, and give it a kick.

try not to die -

- saylor

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

......when you know you have good TDC on #1, yank the dizzy out and look at the gear underneath. it should be in line / parallel long with the motor. .......it is also illustrated in the FSM.

if the distributor gear shaft slot is not in parallel, you can use a large blade screwdriver and walk the gear until it is in the correct position. then restab the distributor, tighten the hold down, put the coil wire back, tighten plugs, and give it a kick.

try not to die -

- saylor

The drive gear slot orientation is also illustrated in the diagram I previously posted above. It just takes a moment or two to grasp what the diagram is trying to tell you. Study it a bit and you'll understand it better.

Saylor is correct, Slot in gear drive should be nearly "parallel to" engine center line when installed correctly.