'61 Dodge Dart Phoenix w cross-ram

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  1. SXArnold

    SXArnold New Member

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    A '61 Dodge Dart Phoenix with 383 cross-ram and manual trans recently crossed my radar. I know nothing about them having recently completed a '66 426 hemi Belvedere. Owner claims 1 of 12 with the engine/trans combo. Sounds like the 383 was early '61 before the switch to a 413 later in '61 reading some of the threads on this site. Hoping to get educated before making an appt to see it this weekend. The design was apparently heavily panned in it's day but damn I think it looks sweet. The car is complete, supposedly engine rebuilt and body in primer. I'm hoping it's not already blown apart. What should I know about these, good/bad?
     
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  2. Newport 66

    Newport 66 Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    What's there to know... a 383 with ram induction?? Why haven't you gotten it yet, what are you wasting your time reading this post????
     
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  3. Snotty

    Snotty Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    What's the transmission? If it's a 4-speed, it isn't factory. Be aware of that.
     
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  4. 413

    413 Well-Known Member

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    No 413 in a dodge long ram. 361 and 383 only dodge /Plymouth
    413 long Ram was Chrysler only
     
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  5. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    As noted, '61 was available with either Powerflite, torqueflite, or 3 speed manual. The race only versions were usually 3 speeds, most of the rest were torqueflites. The 3 speed stick was available also for street use, but was not very common. Be sure to check the cross ram choke pits for corrosion, that was a very common problem on cars that were street driven. The bottom of the pits in the aluminum castings rotted out and the chokes quit working. 413, as noted was a Chrysler engine only in '61, 361 was mass produced in '60 and mostly disappeared in '61 in favor of the 383 cross ram.

    Dave
     
  6. SXArnold

    SXArnold New Member

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    Thanks for all of the information. I believe it's a 3 speed on column but will report back. Hoping I can get the VIN before the drive. How difficult are parts for these cars to get? Are there any other resources I should look into?
     
  7. hergfest

    hergfest Active Member

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    All of the VINs for the Factory D500 61 Dodges are listed in the Daryl Davis books. They are currently out of print but there are a few guys that have them. There are certain tell-tale signs of a real ram car like the inner fender cutouts and little things as in where the brake lines are mounted/routed.
     
  8. 1958300

    1958300 New Member

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    No 413 cars from factory, but 413 was listed by NHRA as a factory authorized “dealer installed option”. Several cars on the drag strips were running the 413, and a 413 equipped 61 Dodge was second in the NHRA Nationals.
     
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  9. commando1

    commando1 Old Man With a Hat on the Porch FCBO Gold Member

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    While we're here...
    @SXArnold
     
  10. dplotkin

    dplotkin New Member

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    1961 Plymouth Savoy, 413 (440) w Ram Induction.

    Dan

    Savoy Epping Small Sept 2013 (73).jpg

    Savoy 266.JPG

    Savoy 274.JPG
     
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  11. BIGBARNEYCARS

    BIGBARNEYCARS Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Look at the tops of the inner fenderz for the access panels. Those panels were there in the factory setup for 2 reasons. the bottom of passenger side ram would hit the inner fender without modifying the fender and they were added on both sides to make changing the spark plugz possible. (AFTER REMOVING THE FRONT TIRES THAT IZ) lol. Jer
     
  12. dplotkin

    dplotkin New Member

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    Not all Ram Induction equipped cars had inner fender access (as did all 300F's). Spark plugs can be changed without the access panels or their removal.

    Dan
     
  13. BIGBARNEYCARS

    BIGBARNEYCARS Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    I guess it all dependz on how many bendz you have in your arms between your shoulderz and fingerz. I'll stick with what I said ah while back Dan. I'd like to know the make, year, and model of any factory Cross Ram Car that left the factory without access panels? '60, '61, '62, '63, '64 and yes I mentioned '62 also. 'Course you knew 'bout those water heated Cross Ram '62s rite? Happy Trails, Jer
     
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  14. dplotkin

    dplotkin New Member

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    I have seen and spoken to several owners of 60 And 61 Dodge and at least two Plymouth with RAM manifolds from the factory without the access panels. Now these owners could be lying to me and you may be right, but they may be telling the truth and you may not know everything you believe you know. Same could be true of any of us. Every letter car I have seen and own has the access panels. And yeah, I learned about those water heated 62's, probably from someone such as yourself.

    Best-

    DP
     
  15. BIGBARNEYCARS

    BIGBARNEYCARS Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    The C300 had been on the market for 7-8 months when I traded my operators license for a CDL in May of '55. At this juncture in time 65+ yearz down the road, I'd question the validity of any Cross Ram Mopar without access panels but then I voted for Barry Goldwater too. FYI, My Cross Rammed '61 300 Wagon had access panels too, lol. I know 'cuz I had all 4 of the access panels for the different body styles re-popped in Fiberglass in the late '80s... THAT WAZ FUN. You're a letter car owner too? My letter fleet consisted of a D coupe, G coupe, Ram K coupe, and a Hurst, And my adventure happily continues. Jer
     
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  16. dplotkin

    dplotkin New Member

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    Yup- finishing a white 300 F with AC. Have the black Savoy above that I built from a six. Love these cars. Still learning. Check out the 300F on BAT, nice options.

    Dan
     
  17. 413

    413 Well-Known Member

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    The cars were down on paper before they started welding them together. IBM cards. They new what they were building, they didn’t change the cars options or engine half way through assembly.

    The cut out fender wells are to allow the body to be dropped over the complete subframe and engine/trans. That’s how they went together. All of them!

    The factory did not lean over the fender and install the long ram intakes.
     
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  18. Ram Fury

    Ram Fury Member

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    Lads --
    My current '60 SonoRamic Commando-equipped Fury does NOT have the removable fender well panels and I not only have the factory sheet attesting to the fact that it came off the line as such, but it is also identified in Darrell's book as being an
    exception to the above rule. However, the '60 I had back in 1960-1964 did have them. Joe Godec
    thumbnail.jpg
     
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  19. crazyboutwagons

    crazyboutwagons Well-Known Member FCBO Gold Member

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    What ever happened to the original poster of this thread?

    I was at a local car show 2 years ago in the Pittsburgh area there was a older gentleman that pulled in next to me he had a black 1960 Plymouth Fury Supersonic (That's what he called it) that had a factory 383 with cross-ram setup(which he removed for restoration)the car had the removable inner fenders and the factory support rods for the cross ram setup. He was running a Edlebrock modern carb while the original carbs were being restored . Another cool feature of the car was the front sculptured inside wheel wells that appeared to be chrome plated the car was still in original black paint the interior rear panels were missing as was the headliner.
    I haven't seen the car since I would like to see it with the restoration completed. The car looked similar to the one listed sold for $43k in the forward look section of FCBO.
     
  20. azblackhemi

    azblackhemi Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    The day he started this thread was the last day he was on here.