Alright guys I'm having trouble fi finf the problem with my brother fifth avenue. It was running and driving fine until o e day he went out to start and nothing happened. Turn the key and nothing happens. I've replaced the starter switch and starter relay and still nothing. It will turn over but not start when you jump the relay. Battery is good and charged. I've checked the neutral switch. Not sure where to look next. Any ideas?
87 Chrysler fifth ave doesn't turn over no spark.
- Thread starter fury1
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tbm3fan
Old Man with a Hat
I'm dealing with this in a 1990 Mazda 626. The electronic ignition is very basic. There is no ECU control so one does not need to worry about it. All there is in the system is battery, to ignition switch, to coil, pick up and ignitor. Battery at 12+V, check. Ignition wire to coil (+) showing 12V, check. Ground wire showing 0V and no shorts, check. Unable to test coil by putting test light on both the + and - side due to the inability to slip probe into the connector. If I could I would crank the car and watch the test lights. + side should show bright steady light while - side should show a flickering light. That would mean I have coil negative control and should replace the coil. If I have only a bright light I don't have coil negative control and need to look further.
Coil negative control comes from the ignitior and the transistor inside which opens and closes. If it stays open I have a bright test light and if it opens and closes I have a flickering light. Since I couldn't get anything down into the terminals I swapped in the coil from a working 91 626 and the car still had no spark. So now I have a good battery, a good switch and a good coil. In this car the ignitor connects into the pick up via two prongs. It could be either one but I would need to pry off the reluctor to get them out on two cars. In no mood so went looking for a rebuilt distributor only. The ignitor for this car was $119 locally. The rebuilt distributor was $75 with the ignitor but no cap, rotor or pickup wires which I had. Video gives basic idea. Gotta get a scope!
[video]https://youtu.be/YBE7c7lfmnY[/video]
Coil negative control comes from the ignitior and the transistor inside which opens and closes. If it stays open I have a bright test light and if it opens and closes I have a flickering light. Since I couldn't get anything down into the terminals I swapped in the coil from a working 91 626 and the car still had no spark. So now I have a good battery, a good switch and a good coil. In this car the ignitor connects into the pick up via two prongs. It could be either one but I would need to pry off the reluctor to get them out on two cars. In no mood so went looking for a rebuilt distributor only. The ignitor for this car was $119 locally. The rebuilt distributor was $75 with the ignitor but no cap, rotor or pickup wires which I had. Video gives basic idea. Gotta get a scope!
[video]https://youtu.be/YBE7c7lfmnY[/video]
Pete Kaczmarski
Senior Member
Does the car seem to want to start while cranking, then you release the key to run position and it dies.......start simple with the balast resistor on the firewall. I always keep on in the glovebox of the cars of mine that has one. If still does not start try the ignition relay on the steering column.
All the lights in the car come on. Just when you turn the key. There's nothing no click. No dimming lights. So I crossed the starter relay tp see if it would start with the key in the on position. It didn't start and I smelled gas so there's no spark either.
tbm3fan
Old Man with a Hat
Let's start from the beginning. What does the car do when you turn the key to start? Does the engine crank over or not? A car does not start in the "on" position. OCD kicking in now...
spark testers are cheap and easy to use on that car... I would recommend you get one, smell of gas is not proof of no spark.
terminology of the starter doesn't turn the crankshaft is no crank. If you jumped the starter relay and it still didn't crank (I'm not clear on this) take the starter out and many parts stores have a test stand to check start function.
If the starter did crank, try starting in neutral and wiggling the gear selector while starting.
whatever is preventing the starter from functioning, it is very unlikely it would prevent spark as well.
Nice Vantage... That first generation will be all you ever need to diagnose sensor troubles. They do everything except secondary ignition really well. The secondary ignition probe only lets you see the cylinders one at a time.
I don't think you will get too far with him unless he comes up with better symptoms.
When I turn the key to start nothing happens.I've tried messing with the shifter nob and still nothing. I just checked spark with one of the plugs and nothing. There's no power to the coil either. New ballast resister.
Get the starter working first... you cant have spark unless the engine is turning.
Need a wire schematic to do any meaningful testing. The one check I could give you off the top of my head is to see if voltage is getting to the small starter terminal when someone turns the key to start. If voltage, starter might have an open commutator, if no wire schematic and also the possibility of an old aftermarket alarm installed.
good luck with it
Sorry tbm3fan, I initially thought the video was your scope and you instructing. See it now.
There are a couple things from the video I can address. First I am not impressed with his spark test method. It would stress the coil unnecessarily to jump that additional air gap, and could be dangerous if the test light isn't properly grounded.
cheap spark testers like this are $5 and are safe and easy to use... blinky light makes it very clear you have spark.I did not like the way he stabbed his "back probe", in this case test light into connectors. Be careful so you don't damage seals or wires... but its easy any piece of metal you can wiggle in will work.
I am down right pissed off this guy is using a test light. A DMM could tell al the same information and if you accidently probe the wrong connection, your DMM wont hurt anything except if the leads are in AMP jacks. Test lights have no business being used around electronics.
The amperage test this guy did could have been avoided if he had simply unplugged the coil pack, then the voltage pulse from the igniter(same as ignition module) would have been able to resume if the coil was shorted and ohms test of most coils would show a short.
If you read the small print on the "scope" you will find the first generation Vantage is actually a "graphing DMM". It has a nice screen and a good sample rate, so it can do the job of a scope in most automotive applications. This also means you could do most of what it does with a nice $40-$80 DMM from sears. The next 2 generations of Vantage are actually scopes due to their faster sample rate... that is the difference $4k-$5k makes. You can often buy the old ones cheap because their owners never learned how to use them... but careful, they are not always supported for repairs and are expensive when they are supported.
tbm3fan
Old Man with a Hat
Well, hell, if nothing happens then you can forget about checking for spark. You first need to get power to the starter so it cranks the engine. Spark, etc. are way down the list at this time.
traintech55
Senior Member
Seems like you have tried a number of things, but let me get some more information. Does the car have a standard column, or tilt? the ignition switches are in different locations between the two. A standard column has the switch internal behind the lock cylinder, and a tilt column has it mounted outside on the column jacket. Check to see if you have voltage out when the key is in the start position. If not you have a bad switch, if you do look for a bad ground on the relay side from the neutral switch, (I believe the white wire at the relay). I f you have voltage at the relay with the key in start, (I believe the yellow wire) and ground then you have a bad relay. Get the starter working first before you mess with the spark issues.
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