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saforwardlook said:
My apologies, Will. Things just veered off track because I stated that one reason I like the Forward Look mopars was because of the fond rememberences when I felt life was good, much better than these days in many ways and why I thought our country has declined in the world.
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No need for apologies, It just seems there is a better thread/forum for all this.
I do love that our threads can sometimes wonder off subject but they usually come full circle back to the OP. Carry on and see where it goes. :popcorn:
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Nothing a wife and kids wouldn't have given you . However I may be getting to personal there.

Fair enough, please know my wife and kids were the answer to my adolescent hopes and dreams. Everything else is icing on life's cake. I am truly grateful everyday for what I have achieved, where I've landed and for what is in the chaos that is my life.
Unlike Ross I've been pretty lucky
 
polara71 said:
Nothing a wife and kids wouldn't have given you . However I may be getting to personal there.

Fair enough, please know my wife and kids were the answer to my adolescent hopes and dreams. Everything else is icing on life's cake. I am truly grateful everyday for what I have achieved, where I've landed and for what is in the chaos that is my life.
Unlike Ross I've been pretty lucky
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That is not too personal for me at all. While I understand and appreciate the role that your family plays in your life, I really don't believe that was the answer to what I was deeply searching for. A loving wife and kids are certainly fulfilling, and I am truly glad you find completeness in them, but what then after that? Do we just go into the ground and that is it, or is there something else? For me, it was more like Solomon said: "everything is meaningless", even with success and families.

And God forbid, if you lose someone that is central to your life, then what have you got left? It happens sometimes.

I just wanted the big picture, and knowing that there really is a God, He loves me unconditionally and that this world isn't everything is what I wanted and needed to know. "Purpose" in life is one word that sums up what I needed to understand, and it had to be convincing. I discovered it is to have a personal relationship with Him and reflect Him in all I do. Can you imagine what this world would be like if everyone had that attitude? It would be amazing and transformational.

Take care.

p.s.
Here is a guy that I have cited before that is very successful and has a beautiful, wonderful family too. But he also has something else in his life that he feels deeply about and had his own personal struggle to get there, very much unlike the path I was on. It is probably his most emotional song I have ever heard him do, but it also reflects how I feel too. No, its not Metallica or the like and it starts off a little awkardly to those not familiar with where he is coming from, but he reflects that there is so much more to life when the picture is complete and life has meaning. It is not just some mindless, feel good song; it is genuine, sincere expression of what life can really be when you have a personal relationship with the creator. And all you have to do is give up control of your life to Him. Impossible to do on our own because of our pride.

.
 
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I just deleted everything in this space I had written a moment ago ......................................


I respectfully need to get out of this conversation before I say something that appears fine to me but not to you.
 
polara71 said:
I just deleted everything in this space I had written a moment ago ......................................


I respectfully need to get out of this conversation before I say something that appears fine to me but not to you.
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I truly understand, appreciate and respect that. Best wishes always.
 
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saforwardlook said:
I really don't respond with contempt at those who do not share my beliefs.
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You should not confuse contempt for incredulity on the part on any non-believer when faced with nonsensical religious dogma.

saforwardlook said:
There is no way to "prove" either "faith". You have to go by the preponderance of the evidence.
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The scientific method is the most reliable way to establish evidence.
 
Fratzog said:
Just curious how you came to that conclusion.
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It was in the totality of what I read. The example I cited was just one of many where it is not what I would have expected a writer to say, especially in Romans 9, if he were trying to convince us to believe in what was being said. It was the exact opposite on my first go around.

And in another example, in Galatians 5: 16-26 it talks about the results of living in concert with God's counsel vs living for ourselves, and the predictions as I look in real life are compelling in their accuracy - rarely are things laid out so starkly. I could go on with so many more.

I actually looked into other religions before Christianity, and none of them seemed believeable to me and frankly they seemed juvenile in their pretenses. But the Bible, when I was compelled to actually study it completely, came across completely differently. And on its face, as the commenters in the videos you cited in support of your current views, it actually seems like a bunch of outlandish claims and conflicting statements - until you really study it and understand what is really being said and how it all fits together. In comparing what is said to how the world was intended to work, it is compelling to me that its counsel is utterly reliable and works when it is followed every time......and when its counsel isn't followed, how we descend into problems personally and as a society every time as well. In short, no man has this much widsom to impart and done so with such a no holes barred, take it or leave it approach if they intended to be compelling. But that is just what it turned out to be for me.
 
Maybe I could just add that I really appreciate the level of this discussion, and things not getting out of hand and being respectful to one another even when we strongly disagree. As I said before, I have been on both sides in the past and have no disrespect whatsoever for what you believe since I too strongly believed what some of you do. Thanks for hearing me out, and I hope I didn't come across inappropriately. I have just tried my best to be sincere and honest about where I am now.

The freedom on this Board to express ourselves openly without animosity and ridicule says a lot about the character of its participants and the friendship we share. We will succeed as a group as long as we can agree on and display these values.

I actually appreciate each of you in this discussion even more than before and hope we can switch gears now and continue to talk about some of the things we very much agree on and enjoy, even if much of the modern world probably looks at these vehicles as outlandish and ridiculous! Until they have lived with them for decades and actually experienced them, they will never understand why we are compassionate!

chrysler-300-1971-2.jpg


Daves_70_Polara_convertible.jpg
 
saforwardlook said:
In short, no man has this much widsom to impart and done so with such a no holes barred, take it or leave it approach if they intended to be compelling. But that is just what it turned out to be for me.
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Thanks for your explanation. I see no reason to believe that the positive teachings that you cite are anything more than complied human wisdom dressed up as divine revelation in order to sell a particular religion. Fortunately in your case it appears to have had a positive influence on your life.
 
Normally, when I get into Internet "debates" I like to cite 3rd party sources... for example the argument says "XYZ is the most American car", I'll point out who funded this piece of research, and what factor (like sales #'s) they've included to get a desired result.

Obviously that data doesn't exist for who/what/how created the universe; for either side. One side will admit that faith is a requirement, another responds
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But a fly in this ointment is that the best "science" can do is provide a theory. And with the passage of time, many of those theories no longer provide any more than laughter or are we still expecting this?
Ice-Age.png

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Pluto.jpg

Frankly, why must it even be a big-bang? Just because it sounds cooler than "gradual sizzle"?

Steve's giving you the nice side of a belief in God. I could do that as well, but that leads to "religion is a crutch, it's for the feeble minded, George Carlin was a Prophet, etc." talk.

So I'll just stick to my "big-bang fairy tale is a load of agenda-driven manure that explains nothing" argument and leave religion for another day.

Definition of scientific method
  1. principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses
That last step is going to be a problem don't you think? I can put a virus under a microscope and demonstrate that Clorox makes the wigglers stop moving, but it will be a ***** to create a mini-universe in a test tube.

That means no one gets to call "science" until they can demonstrate their hypotheses. Or are we just skipping the hard steps now?

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Well, I guess we often do.
 
Carmine said:
  1. and the formulation and testing of hypotheses
That last step is going to be a problem don't you think? I can put a virus under a microscope and demonstrate that Clorox makes the wigglers stop moving, but it will be a ***** to create a mini-universe in a test tube.
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They said the same thing about gravity waves.

Science sometimes takes considerable resources and time to achieve results.
 
I can't read enough of those kind of articles. Although there are all kinds of questions that we don't have answers for, what we do have is a valid method to begin to solve problems and eventually answer the questions. As in any endeavour there may be detours on the path to achieving the correct answer. It is mind boggling to think that it has only been several hundred years since we have known the earth isn't flat and orbits the sun. Science is relentless in pushing back the dark force of ignorance.
 
I would wager that some of the same guys that rely on "science" to provide "evidence" that there is no God will also deny that Climate Change is real despite more than 90% of atmospheric scientists agreeing to that reality (the rest are likely to be the ones hired by the oil companies - you know, the "you pay, we say" group of scientists).
 
So you disagree with our President that climate change is a hoax perpretrated by the Chinese to wreck our economy?
 
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