Acid Dipping MI Thumb area.

[mopar_4life]

Hello,

My 65 is currently at the body shop getting prepped to be painted. ( I know that I haven't started a thread). He is recommending that we try to acid dip my car to remove everything evil..... there is tons of undercoating/bondo/rust. He thinks that it would be a better option to remove everything and find all of the rust and problems this way. My question is does anyone know of any places in the Thumb area in Michigan? I know there is a place in Romulus and Toledo. The car is located in Sandusky MI.


Thanks

Eric

 

[Carmine]

How about a mobile blasting service?

Personally I'd be worried about the acid still doin' its thing in the nooks and crannies for a long time afterwards.

 

[mopar_4life]

We talked about it. But someone has sprayed undercoating on the inside of panels and doors. Making an acid dip really necessary.

 

[azblackhemi]

I am NOT a big fan of dipping. The one car I did that was dipped oozed acid for a couple of years. Luckily it's mostly from the pinchweld under the rockers so at least it didn't ruin too much paint. How to strip a car was always a dilemma. Sandblasting could warp panels if not done right and sand blew out of cracks for ever. Soda blasting didn't warp but it didn't take of rust or undercoating. Mechanical stripping (Grinding) is labor intensive. We usually wound up with a combination of 2 or 3 methods.

 

[BIGBARNEYCARS]

I've dealt with the folks in Romulus. but only with bare blocks, aluminum wheel stripping, and "holy punched" paint canz full of rusty fastenerz. They know their stuff and they have a seperate building set up just for complete car bodyz. They're the only place I've found that can remove factory color coating on wheelz without destroying the aluminum, but I kinda lean toward Carmine's comments on the left over contamination continuing to eat on your car, Tho' others seem to swear by it. Sandusky to Romulus? Go for ah visit and check out their operation and if you like what you see, rent a U-Haul and roll the dice. 1st exit south of 94 on 275, right turn at the end of the off ramp then the 1st left. They are the 1st industrial building on the right, Jer

 

[azblackhemi]

Another big disadvantage to dipping is you will remove all the paint, primer and corrosion protection from all the inside nooks and cranny's that you won't be able to recoat. In a rust prone area long term this could be a problem.

 

[CBODY67]

When I hear "acid dipping", I think of what the factory SS racers did to fenders and such in th early 1960s.

In "the dipping" process you're talking about, it is/was more popular in the vintage restoration areas of the car hobby. Certainly, there will be some "acid" fluids involved to get things cleaned, but after that, there should be a few other "dips" to neutralize those fluids and give the bare metal some short-term protection from rust.

I used to see some examples of that at local swap meets. Looked impressive to see a Model A door that had been half-stripped so before and after was visible on the same item. I knew of a guy that had his Road Runner convertible done at a place back then. He got the car back in a huge plastic bag. Loaded and propped it up on his car trailer, and brought it home for rebuilding.

Since that earlier popularity, the numbers of operators have dwindled greatly, it seems. But the necessity of having it done properly is important.

Media blasting? The softer media, the better, BUT you'll need to meticulously get as much of the media out of the nooks and crannies of the body before putting it back together. Plastic and other similar media is preferable to the classic "sand" (which can collect and hold moisture). Not to mention panel warping from friction between the media and the panel, or from incorrect procedures.

In the "dip" situation, best to get the body to the body shop and paint booth as quickly as possible after it comes out of the dip operation, dries, and can be transported "in the bag".
That's just my suspicion.

CBODY67

 

[65sporty]

So who did you end up taking it to in Sandusky??? I don't know of anyone who acid dips, but I think Jer has you covered.

 

[CBODY67]

Another big disadvantage to dipping is you will remove all the paint, primer and corrosion protection from all the inside nooks and cranny's that you won't be able to recoat. In a rust prone area long term this could be a problem.

In the Barn Finds website, there were some graphic examples of after-production rust preventative measures in some of these areas, like the bottom of the B-pillar and rocker panel interfaces. Several stampings were welded together. The rust preventative coatings were obviously improperly applied, as those areas rusted greatly, although the areas above them were unrusted. The coating basically sealed those areas so the accumulated moisture could not evaporate and leave the area. One '75 Road Runner, in particular, when some of Chrysler's rust preventative measures seemed to have "good days/bad days", by observation.

Re-applying a OEM quality seal sealer might be considered, before primer/paint, too, for good measure. THAT could take some time. Seems like some of the dips won't attack those, though?

CBODY67

 

[Carmine]

I know dry ice is used as a media, so there is no residue to deal with, but I'd think it would be rather light-duty.

As for the acid dip, how far to the Flint river?

 

[cm23uoc]

Dry ice does not remove rust or paint even AFAIK, it's a good choice to clean up a very well preserved example on the underside getting rid of dirt, old undercoating etc.
But then, personally I wouldn*t Shell out Money to have a nice underbody instead of simply a rust free dirty one.

 

[Big_John]

I talked to a local guy that restored cars once about it. He likes to have the cars dipped and start from scratch. He said to do the process correctly, the car is actually baked first to remove the paint and undercoating and then is dipped in a couple different concoctions to strip away rust and whatever is left. It is then redipped to neutralize any chemical and protect the bare metal.

He had the bodies transported to someplace down south for this as there was no one in the northeast that did it. It was not a cheap process by any means.

IMHO, unless the whole process is done correctly, start to finish, it's a hell of a chance to take that it may come back to haunt you. Also IMHO, if the body guy isn't directing you to a place to have the car dipped, he probably isn't the person to be dealing with a dipped car. In other words, this may be his first and only experience and is going to be learning about it on your car.

The question to ask yourself is if the ends justify the means. As is my understanding, this will not be an inexpensive process. The dipping may save some labor, but it's also going to create some work as now everything has to be recoated. Everything has to be removed and replaced. Everything..... There's also the possibility that you end up with a big piece of steel Swiss cheese once it comes back from dipping.

Some food for thought.... Is this really the car to pour this time and money into? $30k worth of restoration might be cool on a Hemi Cuda, but think about it. You can buy a really nice C-body for under $15k... Or let's say you find a rust free one that needs paint and interior work. You spend $5k for the car, another $6k in paint, $2k in interior work and another $2k in miscellaneous stuff. Again... $15k and you'll have one of the nicest C-body cars around.

 

[Fury440]

I agree 100% with Big John. Dipping is very drastic and I feel will eventually come back to bite your ***. I'm thinking of folded edges, like around the trunk lid and hood. These folds will siphon acid in deep, but the following base dips will not draw in to neutralize the acid because the fold is already wet and won't siphon more. Another bad area, the rockers which are multilayered. Water gets siphoned in these layers and eats them from the inside out. Baking will dry them out so that the acid will wick in, but getting the base dip in to neutralize the acid could be problematic.

My gut says the cost of getting all this done properly probably will exceed the price of NOS panels or even really mint rust free panels from the desert states.

Just my gut talking.

 

[Big_John]

My gut says the cost of getting all this done properly probably will exceed the price of NOS panels or even really mint rust free panels from the desert states.

Or a car not needing that much work...

 

[live4theking]

Let us know what you decide.

 

[CBODY67]

When the whole dipping process first came out, it was considered to be "the best" way to do things. The example the vendors had at the swap meets was a complete Model A door, dipped half-way from the top. Glass and window regulator still installed. Cleaned up that window regulator mechanism very nicely!

The issue of "acid" never was mentioned, as I recall. The perception I had was like the later paint strippers that allegedly stopped at the factory primer level of things. Be that as it may. Obviously, the chemistry of things has evolved from those earlier times, as have environmental concerns with the fluids used in the process.

Best to ask about the folded-panel area issues BEFORE rather than later! This will most probably get to be a more in-depth discussion with the operators than they typically are used to, I suspect. Engine blocks, castings, and independent sheet metal items are one thing, a complete and complicated-construction vehicle body assy is another.

Questions to ask. Subjects to contemplate. Cost-benefit questions.

Perhaps a selective-area (even multiples) use of a water-neutralized paint stripper might be a better place to start?

CBODY67