Advice thread for newbies to the old car hobby.

Carmine

Old Man with a Hat
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Because I daily-drive old cars, people often ask me about how to get into the “vintage car” hobby. And I think that’s a great thing… Strength in numbers and all that.

The problem is that what often hooks people into the idea of an old car is not compatible with a satisfactory old-car experience. In all the car magazine and websites I’ve been reading for 30+ years, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen such an article written on the subject.

What is the hook? The open-air feel of a convertible. The awesome sound of a heavily-cammed engine. A paint job that looks six-feet deep. Maybe a desire to be one-of-the-guys at the local cruise night, or relive some youthful memory. But remember, these are all intangibles. This is like me saying I want to feel what it’s like to be hoisted up by my teammates after scoring the winning basket. But I can’t dribble reliably and haven’t been on a court since middle-school.

The internet can be a huge help, but it won’t turn wrenches for you. Everyone wants to be the hero and solve your problem, especially people with poor reading comprehension. I’ve never personally witnessed someone restore a car with a checkbook, but I hear it happens. What I most definitely have seen are people being ripped-off, disappointed, frustrated and ultimately abandoning their dream.

People ask me, “What’s a good shop”? I have no answer for that question. I have a local guy I trust to change parts that I don’t want to attempt without a lift. But even that boils down to boring, mundane things like inner tie-rod ends on a fairly modern car, or change a coolant hose on a minivan. He doesn’t want to cheat me, nor does he want me to tie up his shop familiarizing himself withPrincipals of Modern Carburetion, Bantam Books, 1969. That’s why our arrangement works. I’m sure people eventually reach a stage where they can afford to have other people fix things… I don’t know any of those people. I probably can handle a restoration bill, but I’m frustrated before I get the first estimate. I considered farming-out some work on my ’73 Polara and traveled to three local shops. I walked past the Autorama trophies and custom-billet laser-etched oil breathers and spoke to Miss December who put my name in a database. See you in 2021. I don’t think we’re a good fit.

So my advice… if you’re a neophyte, just starting out; is to forget about having the coolest old car with perfect chrome, a rumbling cam, stops on a dime, lays rubber on command. Think about what attracts you to the hobby? If I handed you the keys to a nice but shelf-worn, low option, triple-green ’73 Newport sedan and said “drive this for a year”; would you?

Buy your first old car based on condition and learn to fall in love with it. Think of it as an arranged marriage and everyone in both families is smarter than you. The good news is, you can move on as your skills improve and no one will declare a Fatwa, kill your family, or demand you return their sacred goat.

My 1976 Royal Monaco would have been a great car for a first timer. It was never abused (except briefly before I rescued it). It was always maintained. It doesn’t stink. The seats are nice. It has some minor rust, but it’s not going to structurally collapse. Because it’s on the newer side of the C-body scale, it has a lot of nice things like good disc brakes, a 100 amp alternator, a better wiring harness, modern dash lighting, and so forth. It would give you a chance to learn things like carburetors and linkage before you need to master cleaning bulkhead connectors or rheostat rebuilds. Because it’s an undesirable 4dr sedan, it was under $3000. I see cars like this for sale all the time. That’s where you should begin your quest. That’s the advice no one ever listens to. They want what got them hooked. Shiny. Loud. Fast. OK, go play basketball with the street kids, get smoked and never touch a basketball again. My advice is to start slow and build your skills.

Forget about modifying it on day one. Everybody wants to share their success story, but people who’ve been burned-out on projects aren’t posting on this any forum. They’re off cursing behind the wheel of their leased Hyundee about all the money they pissed away on an old project car. Always, always, always keep in mind a few things:

· These are machines. They don’t know how old they are. 50 years ago, people expected their new cars to carry them reliably through the desert on a tank of gas they bought in Tijuana. Or up a mountain pass through a snow storm. They had points, 60 amp alternators, and tar-top batteries. If your car isn’t up to any of that, it’s because something isn’t functioning to design intent. None of the companies around in 1968 would have existed in 1969 if their products couldn’t perform these tasks. With the exception of tires, my daily driver is much the same as it was 40 years ago. I’d drive it to Arizona RIGHT NOW if you got me the time off work. (I mean that. If anyone can pull strings… it’s raining again and I feel sick.) The same engineers designed whatever you’re looking at, if you’re shopping Mopars.


· When and if you make modifications, they should be made after you’ve returned that particular system to working condition… As practical. Obviously if you had a car without brake spindles, I wouldn’t tell you to get the drums working before you swapped to discs. But you’re a beginner, remember? Why did you buy a car without wheels, dumbass? What practical means is don’t do this… “My car has a miss at idle. Johnny Hotrod on the internet told me that points are no good, I should get rid of them.” Then you waste a bunch of time and money without learning you had a plug wire grounding out.

I’m going to stop writing here… I need to pack up for the day and this isn’t going to be a literary masterpiece anyway. Others may have thoughts and I’ll probably chime in again.
 
I like where you're going here.
My hook was a car i wanted Dad to order when i was a kid. Instead he went with a 65 Custom 880 4dr.
It's also why he was working all the O.T. through the summer of '63.
The Monaco's over 50 years old and still a fun car to drive.
Last summer a guy with a ScatPack Charger following me was surprised the car moves so well.
 
I’m going to stop writing here… I need to pack up for the day
Another day, another dollar...
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Carmine has given some great advice.

I'll add some of my own... First, don't buy a project. Yea, it all sounds fun until you realize that you spent months and $$$ on it and it's going to take years and $$$$ to finish it. So many guys start wanting "a project"... and then it gets torn apart and before you know it, you've lost all interest. If you want to do some work, buy something that needs a little TLC or some tinkering. Those afternoon or weekend projects won't zap your wallet or enthusiasm like a basket case will.

Buy the best car you can afford. I'll say that again, buy the best car you can afford. Look for a running, driving car with minimal rust. That $500 rust bucket might be a great deal if you need a parts car, but restoring it is going to take a lot more time and money than if you bought a turn key car. Don't buy a project.

Anything that you repair, replace, recondition etc. will cost twice as much as you thought it will. Paint and bodywork is through the roof and that's if you can find someone to do the paint and bodywork.... and do it this year. Don't buy a project.

An old car is just that, an old car. It's not gonna stop or corner like your new Toyotasandai. It's not going to be as comfortable or even as safe. It's just not going to... It never will... Embrace the oldness instead. Don't expect to do all sorts of "upgrades" and not pull your hair out somewhere in the process. Drum brakes work... You just have to fix them correctly. Don't buy a project.

As Carmine says, there's lot's of folks that will give you advice, but not all of it is good. Your FSM and parts book are your friends. Keep them close by. You can't go too far wrong with the stock setup. Do your homework first and then ask the questions. Don't buy a project.

Don't be too fussy about everything... Don't worry about the scratches in the fender or the tear in the seat... Go to the cruise night or the show anyway. There will be cars far worse. The idea is to have fun... and don't get yourself all torn up about date codes and matching numbers. Don't worry about what someone else thinks. Chances are they don't even have a car or they have some half down/never will be done project. Don't buy a project.

If you buy a running, driving car, drive it for a season before you tear into it at all. Have some fun... You may find that it's best to work on a little bit at a time and spend most of your time having fun. Don't buy a project.

Speaking of fun, that is the idea. Don't buy an old car for any other reason than to have fun and don't buy a project. If you'll notice, I have suggested not buying a project. A project is work... Lot's of work and not much of it is very glamorous or even much fun. Buy something decent, leave the projects for someone else. If you really want to do a project, buy something else to go have fun with so it keeps your interest, but don't throw everything into a project car that isn't any fun.

There's more, but that kinda gets the idea... One more thing, don't buy a project.
 
Agree with both posts. As “nutcase” can attest, main reason I bought “other” Monaco was it was a complete original car. All original glass, trim, interior etc was there. And I paid for enclosed shipping knowing parts are scarce for these cars.
Tomorrow I’ll park next to FCA retiree’s 66 Newport at a local restaurant cruise in.
These two originals get as much attention as any big dollor over-restored car. Seems everyone had one or knows someone that had one “just like it”.
 
My oldest son has this down... He loves convertibles, I think he's owned 4 or 5 of them and he's only 32. Likes the Saabs too, so half have been Saab convertibles. He's got one now... Bought it for $500. Got it running and cleaned it out. The paint isn't great, but it looks OK from 25 feet. I offered to help him do a Rustoleum job on it like we did on his brother's truck, but he just shook his head. The top is a little ragged, but hey... It's a convertible and he'll have the top down.

Most likely, he will have $1200 in this car by the time he buys new tires. He'll get $1200 worth of smiles easily and when he gets tired of it, he'll put it out on his front lawn with a for sale sign and most likely make money on it.
 
I personally like the looks and the feel of the older cars... while my dream would be a completely restored shiny...more sporty car... where is the fun in this? I really enjoy doing my own work on my car, even though I curse at it but its sort of a stress Relief...escape...you know? I always hated how in most newer cars you dont hear it, dont feel the road really, everything is plastic and oddly designed. I am more of a minimalist I guess and without all the electronic helpers, you learn how to drive a car and you gotta gotta stop playing on your phone or otherwise you are getting in big trouble if a crazy maneuvre is required.
 
Carmine has given some great advice.

I quoted this just because I like reading it.

Buy the best car you can afford

Especially if you are a newbie.

An old car is just that, an old car. It's not gonna stop or corner like your new Toyotasandai. It's not going to be as comfortable or even as safe. It's just not going to... It never will... Embrace the oldness instead. Don't expect to do all sorts of "upgrades" and not pull your hair out somewhere in the process. Drum brakes work... You just have to fix them correctly.

Amen. And if it makes you feel any better, it's safer than a brand new motorcycle.


As Carmine says, there's lot's of folks that will give you advice, but not all of it is good. Your FSM and parts book are your friends. Keep them close by. You can't go too far wrong with the stock setup. Do your
homework first and then ask the questions.

"Return to basic conditions" is part of World Class Manufacturing methodology. Works well in industry, works well in life.

Speaking of fun, that is the idea. Don't buy an old car for any other reason than to have fun.

Agree. And don't buy a project.
 
Great advise! Cars were meant to be driven. Cars that are drive tend to get imperfections. Live with them and enjoy the car.

Just an FYI to those who don't know, many of the 1960's era non-A/C cars only had a 37 amp alternator.
 
Mary Bara, CEO of General Motors just last week said their future goals are autonomous all electric vehicles with zero traffic deaths and major traffic reduction. That doesn't sound like there will be much room for us driving our own cars any more down the road. Maybe the best advice is to find another hobby if they are young. I am glad I wasn't born any later.
 
Excellent advice here.

My 2 cents, fix one thing at a time, then get it back on the road before starting the next thing. The longer it is a pile of pieces, the less likely it goes back to being a car. In 15 years, I think the longest mine has been undriveable is about 3 months.

PS, I'm wondering about a project car. Should I buy one? :p
 
Fix and drive, or drive and fix is better.
Points work fine, drum brakes work fine. Single pot master cylinders and non sway bar cars with crap tires are 3 ultimately safety items I would consider mandatory for the modern world.
 
Old thread but with the recognition of 4 door mid 70s cars as of late it deserves some more contemplating.
Don't buy any rust.
Don't buy a bad motor, trans or rear.
Don't buy a vinyl top.
Don't buy it unless you can shelter it to store and work on, they leak rainwater inside like a newborn baby when you get them.
Get something generally between 72 and 79. But I have 4 between 64 and 71, so.
Get something in a condition that an improvement can be made on every weekend. Think small ball.
Get air conditioning.
Go after the mechanicals first and start driving it.
Spend about 2 grand for the car and plan on about a grand for parts to get it running, stopping and turning good. If it needs more parts than that to get it on the road, don't buy it.

Or better yet, finance a ready to go 10 to 20 grand car, drive it every day, and call it good.
 
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