commando1
Old Man with a Hat
They make feel ashamed of myself.
Amazingly fast body repair
- Thread starter commando1
- Start date
300rag
It's Not Going to Shift Itself
Good/cheap/fast .....pick two.
75LandYacht
Yank Tank
I think car now ah days are built in such a way to accommodate such rebuilds when / if necessary..weather is safe or not if left to your own opinion.. IMO
That car would be beyond economical repair in this country and it would be scrapped.
Lower labor rates/overhead must make it possible to repair that car.
Lower labor rates/overhead must make it possible to repair that car.
It's the way things are designed with larger modular sections than in prior times. PLUS having a shop with all of the correct equipment and a motivated staff that knows how to effectively use it. PLUS having the needed parts on hand to do the job!
IF the vehicle had had an air bag deployment, it would probably been an automatic "total" for insurance purposes. Even as new as it appears to be.
Happy Holidays,
CBODY67
IF the vehicle had had an air bag deployment, it would probably been an automatic "total" for insurance purposes. Even as new as it appears to be.
Happy Holidays,
CBODY67
67Monaco
Go Woke, Go Broke.
facebook?... and from a foreign country?
He's old, it's Christmas, he may be having a stroke.
mrfury68
Senior Member
I have always appreciated what a good body man can do. Especially since I do not posess even a tiny hint of body work or painting skills. I know of a few body guys who will buy a late model wreck, light hit, no air bag deployment, fire or flood, fix it and use it as thier daily driver. They have done it for quite a few years. They know what to look for and are patient to wait until one comes along. They tell me the market has gotten tighter over the years and paints and finishes have gotten more expensive but they are still ahead of the game when all is said and done. Tip of the hat to all of you out there who are in that line of work.
We in the USA are owned,,,,no one wants to know or do anything,,just consume.
Throw it away and replace. Cheaper than paying health insurance pension and matching retirement plans . Kids today dont do **** as they have mommy and daddy.
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Really? What companies these days pay such benefits, especially in the jobs that require these kinds of skills?
But I agree that kids these days don't do much of anything except spend 24/7 on their phones because their mommies and daddies let them get away with it since they have no idea how to raise kids. That's why our future looks more like China's from 20 years ago and they will be telling us when to jump and they will be on their phones 24/7 if this planet survives that long without being blown up by then.
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The Goose
Senior Member
There’s still hope. You guys just have to look a little harder. We tear down to the frame everything from backhoes to the largest mining equipment and give them a second and sometimes a third life. New Caterpillar serial number and a full new machine warranty. Not every industry is slash and burn, not just yet. Every time a young guy joins our ranks we help them succeed in any way we can because so few want to work in our business. It’s sad times indeed but every time we get a new kid to join the industry it gives us hope for the future.
My daughter is working two jobs to put herself through nursing school. We try to help as much as we can but she wants to do it herself. Raise em right and they’ll make you proud.
My daughter is working two jobs to put herself through nursing school. We try to help as much as we can but she wants to do it herself. Raise em right and they’ll make you proud.
"Kids on phones, adults (now) too". Communications are now faster and more available than ever. Each generation has their platform of choice, from land-line telephone to totally wireless. No doubt aided and assisted by the fact that Apple products usually have not had USB ports, to get everybody thinking "wireless" rather than "wired", possibly? As things have progressed, most wireless connections are faster than any wired connection could have ever hoped to be. BTAIM
But contrary to what some segments of the car hobby are experiencing, there seem to be mre younger people in the Mopar Hobby, from what I've noticed here and at places like Mopar Nats (when I was going every year from about '88-'05). Enough so that they intiated a "Young Guns" car show class. One year, a group of high school shop class guys took a somewhat worthless Plymouth Reliant and did some amazing custom work on it (Suicide Doors, a custom paint scheme that would rival many high-end shops work, custom interior that was not "store bought") that was truly amazing from such a young group, it seems. BUT they obviously had a passionate administration to allow this to happen, plus some great mentors, too. And that was not the only one!
Social media can be our friend in spreading the passion of cars to younger generations, archived on Internet platforms for all to see in real time and into the future. A passion that makes others want to join the fun, too. A benefit of forums such as THESE, where sharing of experiences and information can help speed others in their quest to repair/restore their vehicles more easily. Generally with less cost, fewer mistakes, and to a higher degree of execution than what we might have done before "instant communicaitons" existed (other than those of our observing friends who might have said something like "You DUMMY! What'd you do that for? You should have known better . . .!" We've all seen that happen, I suspect, at one time or another, whether it was us or a friend.
The observed problem is when people start to rely on social media for information too heavily and don't do their own due dilligence in looking for answers first or seek to understand why what they find is operative. It seems that even high-OEM-trained dealership techs, when presented with a problem they are having issue with, willy frpom quickly call "Tech Assistance" for help. The one positive thing is that that call generates a Case Number for the issue and also builds a data base on the issue should anybody else have something similar happen to them. That's gpod for everybody, BUT then Tech Assiatance will then usually relay a laundry list of parts to fix the issue, probably from some Trouble Tree of sorts, without regard of if the vehicle has a low resale value or is in its first model year. Then looking at that parts list (which they dutifully order from their parts department), they can fail to better diagnose the issue before they do that. That just delays things a few days, meaning more warranty loan car expenses, at the very least. When, in the case I know about, a switch to make things work was not diagnosed as failed until all of the parts arrived a week later, when the switch was the only part of that long list that was available locally. There's a reason it was available locally and everything else was not, but the tech did not understand that, dutifully following Tech Assistance's instructions.
Which gets to "Allocation of Blame", as I see it. And this was an older tech, too! But when we were doing Service to Midnight (which was my parts gig, at the time), we had some younger techs that would have back-probed the switch to see if it was working, or at least removed it to check its functional continuity, plus the integrity of the wiring harness, too. Using the Internet-based service information which GM went to in the later 1980s or so, as their guide.
Earlier this year, we toured a high-end restoration shop. The serviced manager told us that they were looking for two good young techs to hire. He went to a similar high-level auto trade school. Their operative had selected a handful of possibilities for the service manager to interview. The school's contact told a story of a young student. His task was to look for an oil leak on a customer's vehicle (a late-model GM 4wd pickup). The student found the truck, got a creeper, and slid under it. Fifteen minutes later, the instructor went to check on his progress. The student had spent that time on YouTube looking for guidance on the inspection. We all laughed and shook our heads at that one.
That particular shop can do anything. Metal fab, no-bondo body repairs, great paint quality, and needs people who can do these things (which many of the weekend car shows make look simple and quick!) on their own. Quite amazing, but at $100.00/hr and each vehicle could represent an average of 125 hours each, with a waiting list several months long, there can be money to be made with/by competent employees. At that time, they were looking for a bigger place than the old van conversion building they were in.
Personally, I see promise in the current younger generations. WE need to ensure they have/get good guidance so that they can succeed in whatever they desire to do, especially if it involves CARS. Many schools are now specializing in repairs for older cars, some supported and promioted by companies such as Hagerty Insurance. Finding one that is truly sustainable is important and "the trick", as many have come and gone over the past decade or so. One is at LeMay, America's Car Museum in the northwest region of the USA, for example. There are others which are associated with larger car musems, I believe, which have come into existence lately?
Best wishes for a better 2021!
CBODY67
But contrary to what some segments of the car hobby are experiencing, there seem to be mre younger people in the Mopar Hobby, from what I've noticed here and at places like Mopar Nats (when I was going every year from about '88-'05). Enough so that they intiated a "Young Guns" car show class. One year, a group of high school shop class guys took a somewhat worthless Plymouth Reliant and did some amazing custom work on it (Suicide Doors, a custom paint scheme that would rival many high-end shops work, custom interior that was not "store bought") that was truly amazing from such a young group, it seems. BUT they obviously had a passionate administration to allow this to happen, plus some great mentors, too. And that was not the only one!
Social media can be our friend in spreading the passion of cars to younger generations, archived on Internet platforms for all to see in real time and into the future. A passion that makes others want to join the fun, too. A benefit of forums such as THESE, where sharing of experiences and information can help speed others in their quest to repair/restore their vehicles more easily. Generally with less cost, fewer mistakes, and to a higher degree of execution than what we might have done before "instant communicaitons" existed (other than those of our observing friends who might have said something like "You DUMMY! What'd you do that for? You should have known better . . .!" We've all seen that happen, I suspect, at one time or another, whether it was us or a friend.
The observed problem is when people start to rely on social media for information too heavily and don't do their own due dilligence in looking for answers first or seek to understand why what they find is operative. It seems that even high-OEM-trained dealership techs, when presented with a problem they are having issue with, willy frpom quickly call "Tech Assistance" for help. The one positive thing is that that call generates a Case Number for the issue and also builds a data base on the issue should anybody else have something similar happen to them. That's gpod for everybody, BUT then Tech Assiatance will then usually relay a laundry list of parts to fix the issue, probably from some Trouble Tree of sorts, without regard of if the vehicle has a low resale value or is in its first model year. Then looking at that parts list (which they dutifully order from their parts department), they can fail to better diagnose the issue before they do that. That just delays things a few days, meaning more warranty loan car expenses, at the very least. When, in the case I know about, a switch to make things work was not diagnosed as failed until all of the parts arrived a week later, when the switch was the only part of that long list that was available locally. There's a reason it was available locally and everything else was not, but the tech did not understand that, dutifully following Tech Assistance's instructions.
Which gets to "Allocation of Blame", as I see it. And this was an older tech, too! But when we were doing Service to Midnight (which was my parts gig, at the time), we had some younger techs that would have back-probed the switch to see if it was working, or at least removed it to check its functional continuity, plus the integrity of the wiring harness, too. Using the Internet-based service information which GM went to in the later 1980s or so, as their guide.
Earlier this year, we toured a high-end restoration shop. The serviced manager told us that they were looking for two good young techs to hire. He went to a similar high-level auto trade school. Their operative had selected a handful of possibilities for the service manager to interview. The school's contact told a story of a young student. His task was to look for an oil leak on a customer's vehicle (a late-model GM 4wd pickup). The student found the truck, got a creeper, and slid under it. Fifteen minutes later, the instructor went to check on his progress. The student had spent that time on YouTube looking for guidance on the inspection. We all laughed and shook our heads at that one.
That particular shop can do anything. Metal fab, no-bondo body repairs, great paint quality, and needs people who can do these things (which many of the weekend car shows make look simple and quick!) on their own. Quite amazing, but at $100.00/hr and each vehicle could represent an average of 125 hours each, with a waiting list several months long, there can be money to be made with/by competent employees. At that time, they were looking for a bigger place than the old van conversion building they were in.
Personally, I see promise in the current younger generations. WE need to ensure they have/get good guidance so that they can succeed in whatever they desire to do, especially if it involves CARS. Many schools are now specializing in repairs for older cars, some supported and promioted by companies such as Hagerty Insurance. Finding one that is truly sustainable is important and "the trick", as many have come and gone over the past decade or so. One is at LeMay, America's Car Museum in the northwest region of the USA, for example. There are others which are associated with larger car musems, I believe, which have come into existence lately?
Best wishes for a better 2021!
CBODY67
68PK21 440.6bbl
Old Man with a Hat
Just search boobtube for a hellcat rebuild, seems like a minor front end fender bender that sets off all the airbags will be a total loss due to the cost of all the airbags and some other certified crap of reprogramming the computer(?). Seatbelts too I think were a problem item, once they go into accident retract they have to be replaced.
I can remember stopping by my cousins husband body shop and him showing me his new lazer align frame puller table, he had 6/8 month old midsize(?) Ford Ranger pickup on it where he thought it should of been totaled but the insurance company went ahead with a like 20+ grand repair IIRC. He tried to suck me into figuring out the electrical problem it now had where it wouldn't start or keep running as he had no mechanic in the shop just body men. I turned my head and gave him the 'We've already been through this before' look, and this was decades ago before the fully computerized **** that is today. I think the only electronic wizardry was the ignition system and fuel injection, I suggested he flatbed (he had several) it to the Local Ford Dealer and they can plug it into their diagnostic machine for the code read out. He was thinking more along the line that his guys didn't plug things back together right and from the sounds of all the panels he replaced the whole wiring system would have to be gone over. No Thank You.
He also had a PDR guy in one bay of the shop when I was there with all these canvas shields hiding him working. I ask WTF going on there, paintless dent remover guy working he said (new thing back then) Top Secret that's why the shields, he even said he went to a franchise/training promotion on it as he was thinking of doing it in house. He said they made him sign a confidentiality and non-disclosure agreement before the seminar/pitch, top secret **** then.
.
I can remember stopping by my cousins husband body shop and him showing me his new lazer align frame puller table, he had 6/8 month old midsize(?) Ford Ranger pickup on it where he thought it should of been totaled but the insurance company went ahead with a like 20+ grand repair IIRC. He tried to suck me into figuring out the electrical problem it now had where it wouldn't start or keep running as he had no mechanic in the shop just body men. I turned my head and gave him the 'We've already been through this before' look, and this was decades ago before the fully computerized **** that is today. I think the only electronic wizardry was the ignition system and fuel injection, I suggested he flatbed (he had several) it to the Local Ford Dealer and they can plug it into their diagnostic machine for the code read out. He was thinking more along the line that his guys didn't plug things back together right and from the sounds of all the panels he replaced the whole wiring system would have to be gone over. No Thank You.
He also had a PDR guy in one bay of the shop when I was there with all these canvas shields hiding him working. I ask WTF going on there, paintless dent remover guy working he said (new thing back then) Top Secret that's why the shields, he even said he went to a franchise/training promotion on it as he was thinking of doing it in house. He said they made him sign a confidentiality and non-disclosure agreement before the seminar/pitch, top secret **** then.
.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
There is no doubt that somewhere out there one can find shops that do the work as skillfully as the in the video. Like previously mentioned, it's not brain surgery. The problem is we are now a remove and replace society. Removing and replacing is not repairing. It is not a skill. Trained chimpanzees could do the collision work that's out there now.
Today you are rewarded for developing an app. Good gawd.
Today you are rewarded for developing an app. Good gawd.
The "repair vs. replace" orientation is good, as far as it goes. Provided the customer stays "local" and any issues with the repaired part can be handled by the repairing entity. If the cost of the repairs gets close to the price of an OEM reman part, better to go that way. Especially since the customer gets a nationwide OEM warranty (with appropriate documentation). Everybody makes money that way and the customer gets another layer of protection, if needed. Nobody has to rely upon the variable quality of the person doing the repair that way, as the OEM controls that themselves as THEY are the ones paying for any warranty repairs.
Modern auto body designs are driven by a few things, which include decreased assembly time which can also relate to improved build quality and better crashworthiness. Plus the elimination of lead body solder from assembly operations. Which can also mean you get a bigger piece of sheet metal than you need to repair the vehicle, but that's figured into the repair cost anyway.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
Modern auto body designs are driven by a few things, which include decreased assembly time which can also relate to improved build quality and better crashworthiness. Plus the elimination of lead body solder from assembly operations. Which can also mean you get a bigger piece of sheet metal than you need to repair the vehicle, but that's figured into the repair cost anyway.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
300rag
It's Not Going to Shift Itself
When it isn't done right, there's repair of a repair. He's not as fast as the guy in your video...There is no doubt that somewhere out there one can find shops that do the work as skillfully as the in the video. Like previously mentioned, it's not brain surgery. The problem is we are now a remove and replace society. Removing and replacing is not repairing. It is not a skill. Trained chimpanzees could do the collision work that's out there now.
Today you are rewarded for developing an app. Good gawd.
I don't know as I agree completely with that.
The bodymen I knew back in the 60/70's were pretty much a bunch of Bondo slingers. Beat it close, braze (yes braze) it back together and cheese grater the Bondo. Spray it with lacquer and it would last long enough to get traded in and be someone else's problem.
Just doing the paintwork now requires a lot more understanding than watching how the paint drips off the mixing stick like it used to. Patching them back together might not be the art of coachwork, but it does take some skill to make it all fit together right and doesn't come back and bite you if the car gets crashed again.
Knowing how to work metal can be a gift, from what I've seen over the years. Those that might not have that gift can tend to rely upon "filler" by observation. Even to the quick fix that results in "bondo beauties". Which can be a tribute to the sculpturing capabilities of those involved.
An old-line body shop owner used to laugh at some of the fenders some new-to-the job and trying-to-help insurance adjusters used to go find parts to fix the cars in his shop. He said that some salvage yards would "fix" fenders by bondoing them up and putting some paint over it, to look good . . . until you got the fender on the car and the door would not open. Then the adjuster would have to go get another fender or pay to fix the one they brought in to him.
Doing what that guy did to the "repaired car" was masterful and tends to indicate his knowledge of doing modern structural repairs, plus the related primering and re-sealing operations. Thanks for posting it!
CBODY67
An old-line body shop owner used to laugh at some of the fenders some new-to-the job and trying-to-help insurance adjusters used to go find parts to fix the cars in his shop. He said that some salvage yards would "fix" fenders by bondoing them up and putting some paint over it, to look good . . . until you got the fender on the car and the door would not open. Then the adjuster would have to go get another fender or pay to fix the one they brought in to him.
Doing what that guy did to the "repaired car" was masterful and tends to indicate his knowledge of doing modern structural repairs, plus the related primering and re-sealing operations. Thanks for posting it!
CBODY67
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