OldWarHorse300
Active Member
-69 Imp Le Baron, another torsionbar is bend about 3 millimeters ( 1/8 inch) , the other one is straight. Is it problem or not? Removing wasn't difficult.
Bend torsionbar , problem or not?
- Thread starter OldWarHorse300
- Start date
It would probably be OK, but I would replace it. Probably best to replace in pairs... although if you find a used replacement the same diameter, I don't see as it would be a problem either, but others may disagree.
Chances are someone tried to jack it up under that T-bar.
Chances are someone tried to jack it up under that T-bar.
If your going to replace, now is the time for a little improvement.
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1970FuryConv
Old Man with a Hat
I agree with replacement.
I had one with the driver side torsion bar bent. Failure would be catastrophic to the car and maybe the people in it. They need to be replaced to stay on the safe side.
I had one with the driver side torsion bar bent. Failure would be catastrophic to the car and maybe the people in it. They need to be replaced to stay on the safe side.
69PHOENIX
Active Member
G'Day,
I Can Only Agree.
I Have Seen the Result of a Broken Torsion Bar.
A Ruptured Duck is the Only Way It Can Be Described.
Nose on the Deck, Butt in the Air.
Front Bar One Corner Just About Touching the Ground,
Rear Bar Opposite Corner Four Feet in the Air.
Not Worth the Risk.
Regards Tony.M
I Can Only Agree.
I Have Seen the Result of a Broken Torsion Bar.
A Ruptured Duck is the Only Way It Can Be Described.
Nose on the Deck, Butt in the Air.
Front Bar One Corner Just About Touching the Ground,
Rear Bar Opposite Corner Four Feet in the Air.
Not Worth the Risk.
Regards Tony.M
fury fan
Senior Member
To me the question is - what does teh FSM or Chrysler's original quality spec say for allowable bend? (quality specs are likely not around anymore, they would be on an engineering drawing)
Are there any nicks/gouges on it (or the other one)? That's the #1 reason any torsional item will break - a flaw in the highest-stress surface.
You have a 1/8" bend over a 47"+ span - most people would never have noticed it.
A '69 car is 53 years old, that bar could've been bent 30 years and 50K miles ago and hasn't broken. Will it break soon because of that bend?
How many of us are driving cars that have that slight of a bend in them?
This is kinda like a 5.2/5.9 Magnum engine - you fix it when you see the cracks, but all of those engines ran around just fine with cracks in the heads.
Are there any nicks/gouges on it (or the other one)? That's the #1 reason any torsional item will break - a flaw in the highest-stress surface.
You have a 1/8" bend over a 47"+ span - most people would never have noticed it.
A '69 car is 53 years old, that bar could've been bent 30 years and 50K miles ago and hasn't broken. Will it break soon because of that bend?
How many of us are driving cars that have that slight of a bend in them?
This is kinda like a 5.2/5.9 Magnum engine - you fix it when you see the cracks, but all of those engines ran around just fine with cracks in the heads.
And that is why I say it would probably be fine the way it is.
Some random thoughts...
We've all driven cars for long periods of time and then during some random PM we find that there's an issue we've been living with and NOT knowing about. For example, I had a '91 Corvette that did everything right, but once in a while it would hesitate going into reverse. I decided to get it fixed, with my thoughts being "It's gonna strand me sometime". The problem with the trans was it was missing some sealing rings.... The trans had never been apart and it was over 15 years old at the time. The guy that did my trans said "I don't understand how it even worked", yet it was fine.. and would have gone for a lot longer with just that little issue...
Old cars are much more forgiving than a lot of people think.
I don't know what the spec for straightness is for the torsion bar. It may have been like that from day one. I doubt if they all were checked in manufacturing... and heat treat will do some weird things sometimes. But we strive to do things right when wee restore these cars and that sometime means fixing factory screw ups just for piece of mind. It's possible that in use it bent a little too. I don't know maybe some mechanical engamineer could explain. ( @Trace 300 Hurst ?)
When I was a kid, my Dad's '57 Windsor broke both torsion bars, one at a time. Both times they were in the garage and my brother was near the car for the first one and heard it snap. My '63 Dodge broke one while sitting in the driveway. My oldest son was 9 or 10 at the time and he was walking by it, talking to me at the time. The bar snapped and the car lurched... Scared him a little... First words out of his mouth were "I didn't do it!".
BTW, broken torsion bars are excellent pry bars.
So, personal experience and being around these cars since I was little (learned to drive in a '68 300!), I've never heard of a t-bar breaking while the car was moving. YMMV though... and we always should error on the side of safety.
3C's & a D?
Senior Member
I agree with fury fan. Nick's and gouges are the biggest concerns. I once bought a '71 Newport "parts car", and while the body was shot, the drivetrain was strong, so I drove it for 13,000 miles, until the original timing chained skipped at 110 MPH. The torsion bars on that car were so ugly I didn't even bother to save them.
If they worked before you took them out, and you had no problems getting them out, I really can't see a problem reinstalling them.
Big Johns thought that perhaps it was used as a jacking point is one possibility, another could be 50 years of flexing did it? Not too likely. Maybe like that since day one?
How far are you going with the work on your car? Looks like you may be doing Ye Olde stub frame refurbishment, or perhaps a full restoration? In any case, I can understand your concern. I'm kind of a cheapskate, and like using original parts when possible ( good excuse huh?), But seeing as it's all apart, now of course would be the time. My 2 cents, your call.
If they worked before you took them out, and you had no problems getting them out, I really can't see a problem reinstalling them.
Big Johns thought that perhaps it was used as a jacking point is one possibility, another could be 50 years of flexing did it? Not too likely. Maybe like that since day one?
How far are you going with the work on your car? Looks like you may be doing Ye Olde stub frame refurbishment, or perhaps a full restoration? In any case, I can understand your concern. I'm kind of a cheapskate, and like using original parts when possible ( good excuse huh?), But seeing as it's all apart, now of course would be the time. My 2 cents, your call.
OldWarHorse300
Active Member
Thanks everyone about thoughts . Yes, I'm middle of the total restoration ( if you are interested, look at my thread "I'm not a metal man but.." and you get a idea) and I think I'm gonna do this car ones, I hope..
I haven't drive this car, not even one inch so I'd know how t-bars works when driving.
I should check FSM if there any advice about it.
Regards,
Mika
In that case, if it were me, I'd replace the bent t-bar.
I don't think I would go with a stiffer aftermarket version though. You stiffen the front springs and you are adding the potential of more understeer (NASCAR guys call it "push") to a car that's already front heavy and understeers when pushed hard by design. If I were to do that, I would want to add stiffer rear leaves and a rear sway bar to bring the handling closer to neutral. But... It's an Imperial and not something you're going to autocross. YMMV.
3C's & a D?
Senior Member
I'm not a metal man but...
I don't believe I've commented on that thread, however I remember it from when you first started it. Excellent work! I'm going to have to revisit it and catch up.
livininharrow
Senior Member
if you reuse them make sure you install them the way they came out. as in the stamping on the end of the bars. left and right. new bars will be stamped as well.
fury fan
Senior Member
FWIW, I did that very thing.
Went from .99 T-bars and no swaybar to 1.12 Firmfeels and their 1-1/8 front swaybar. (rear springs are worn-out originals that got a leaf added to make them a little less worn out)
And I have 44" T-bars, so my 1.12s have more spring rate than a 47" in the same diameter. (like the 47" an Imp would have)
Granted, I did the front susp about 15 years ago, so memories fade of how it used to drive - but I haven't noticed excessive understeer in it.
I have no data to show the difference, only seat-of-pants. I have a few of these roundabouts nearby.
I go thru without the wallowing expected of a 60s car (if I go more than the 1st exit the steering box can be the limitation on speed vs grace)
One time in a deserted one, I did it skidpad style for 360deg, and it did understeer a little. (don't know exact speed because my speedo is off, but was about 1/2-throttle, I was intentioanlly pushing it)
-> I think the potential of more understeer would be there, except that our cars understeer because of body lean causing poor front tire contact, which the 'base' FF stuff fixes. Now if a guy installed the stoutest FF parts up front with factory rear susp, then that might be concern.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
I have also never had one snap while moving, always parked, lucky I guess. I have had rotten torsion bar cross member twist out a few times.
My personal opinion is, I would leave it. A coil spring is bent and seems fine, a leaf spring is bent and they seem fine. My Challenger has a misaligned driver side torsion bar anchor very hard to get the bar out, lower control arm pried rearward is the only way. It still has the bar that was in it in 1986 when I bought it.
My personal opinion is, I would leave it. A coil spring is bent and seems fine, a leaf spring is bent and they seem fine. My Challenger has a misaligned driver side torsion bar anchor very hard to get the bar out, lower control arm pried rearward is the only way. It still has the bar that was in it in 1986 when I bought it.
First, that's amazing that you've been in the proximity of two bars that suddenly snapped. Remind me not to sit near you at Carlisle!
As for that bent bar, I very much doubt it's from use. I figger the bar twists about 30 degrees from full jounce to rebound, and that wouldn't cause a "buckle bend".
More likely, as Big_John said earlier, over the past 50 years that bar was mistakenly used as a jacking point, or lowered onto a jackstand, or something was in the way as the car was lowered on a lift at a gas station after one of the many 3000 mile oil changes it has seen, or the car drove over something, maybe went offroad into a ditch, maybe driven on a bad dirt road and came down on a short stump.....endless possibilities over the years. Many times to get into our hunting camp in the WVA mountains, my father drove our 68 Fury from DC and instead of hooking up with another member with a Bronco or Jeep where the hardroad ended. It was that kind of forest dirt road, slogging through ruts and bouncing on big rocks that couldn't be dug out. We also had to ford a small stream, also full of rocks if you get off course by a foot or two. Fun for a young teen looking forward to shooting his .22 for a few days, but possibly tough on the car.
Have had that happen myself. Kinda typical A-Body winter car issues.
It was always in the dead of winter... Snowing and very cold. The repair procedure was to drag the floor jack out, jack it up enough to jam a short piece of 2 x 4 between the lower control arm and the frame. Then drive your cold *** to work where break time now included looking through the newspapers and Auto Traders for the replacement car. Although... I did have one welded up... The "pros" that did that fitted a nice U shaped steel piece around the anchor... But then they hacked off a piece of angle iron and welded it across to the other anchor. That car lasted a while after that.
It's more dangerous to be around me than you think... I've been hit by cars twice. My brother Henry was hit once too....
Trace score:
Torsion bar snaps—zero
Car hits—zero
Lightning strikes—zero
Torsion bar snaps—zero
Car hits—zero
Lightning strikes—zero
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Been there, done that. Wood chunks to keep leaf spring though trunk from coming back though.
RemCharger
Active Member
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