Borgeson 800127 (Large Sector) Quick Ratio Steering Box Applications

[BORGESON]

Not all C bodies I know but below is a full list of applications for our part #800127 1-1/4" large sector shaft steering box.
Year______Make__Model
1971-1965 Chrysler 300
1979-1975 Chrysler Cordoba
1975-1968 Chrysler Imperial
1979-1977 Chrysler LeBaron
1979-1965 Chrysler New Yorker
1979-1965 Chrysler Newport
1979-1971 Chrysler Town & Country
1979-1976 Dodge Aspen
1974-1973 Dodge Challenger
1978-1973 Dodge Charger
1976-1973 Dodge Coronet
1965-1965 Dodge Custom
1976-1973 Dodge Dart
1979-1977 Dodge Diplomat
1979-1978 Dodge Magnum
1977-1965 Dodge Monaco
1973-1965 Dodge Polara
1977-1975 Dodge Royal Monaco
1974-1973 Plymouth Barracuda
1976-1973 Plymouth Duster
1978-1965 Plymouth Fury, I, II, III
1977-1972 Plymouth Gran Fury
1975-1973 Plymouth Roadrunner
1974-1973 Plymouth Satellite
1976-1973 Plymouth Scamp
1976-1973 Plymouth Valiant
1979-1976 Plymouth Volare

 

[Luke Pokrajac]

Do you have to cut the column to fit the Borgeson unit into a C-body?

 

[BORGESON]

Do you have to cut the column to fit the Borgeson unit into a C-body?

Hey Luke, As our box is a different length than both the factory power box and factory manual box column modifications are required. You can view product dimensions at the following link: http://borgeson.com/imageCD/800126_800127_Drawing.pdf Bergman Auto Craft, another forum sponsor manufactures a factory type coupling that will allow installation on a factory power steering car without column modifications. Direct-Fit Mopar Steering Coupler - No Cutting - Bergman Auto Craft

 

[Dylan Galvin]

Hey Luke, As our box is a different length than both the factory power box and factory manual box column modifications are required. You can view product dimensions at the following link: http://borgeson.com/imageCD/800126_800127_Drawing.pdf Bergman Auto Craft, another forum sponsor manufactures a factory type coupling that will allow installation on a factory power steering car without column modifications. Direct-Fit Mopar Steering Coupler - No Cutting - Bergman Auto Craft

Intriguing...

 

[saforwardlook]

I have heard from some users that the box is "noisy" as its main negative, so is that the case as compared to the original ones that are essentially quiet? They also say the "feel" is better than stock but not as good as rack and pinion, but that is expected given the design of the box and our cars are not modern ones with a lot of changes in suspension and steering design that further help the feel/precision.

Also, the last time I checked, the power steering ratio on C bodies was 3.5 turns lock to lock, so compared to stock, yours would be the same ratio then, right, and not quicker (but of course your box would be quicker ratio than manual steering cars if one wants to convert from manual to power steering but very few C bodies are manual steering)?

Maybe you want to amplify your comments to address these inputs I have heard, at least.

Thanks.

 

[BORGESON]

I have heard from some users that the box is "noisy", so is that the case as compared to the original ones that are essentially quiet? They also say the "feel" is better than stock but not as good as rack and pinion, but that is expected given the design of the box and our cars are not modern ones with a lot of changes in suspension and steering design that further help the feel/precision.

Also, the last time I checked, the steering ratio on C bodies was 3.5 turns lock to lock, so compared to stock, yours would be the same ratio then, right, and not quicker?

Maybe you want to amplify your comments to address these inputs I have heard, at least.

Thanks.

All hydraulic systems make some level of noise. This is why when we developed the steering box we developed with it our Mopar specific vibration reducing coupling. The coupling creates a break in the metal on metal contact of the steering system which prevents the transmission of hydraulic noise through to the steering wheel. Our box does make more hydraulic noise than the factory box as the entire hydraulic valve of the box is smaller and the hose ports are located very close to the input shaft. Our coupling eliminates the transmission of the reported hydraulic noise. The only instances I am aware of regarding noise is when our coupler is not used.

In regards to steering feel, our box is as good as any modern steering box can be. Rack and pinion eliminates many points on the steering linkage where play can develop. In general our opinion is to "create a better box" we are not a rack and pinion company. We go with steering boxes as upgrades for classic cars as the entire steering and suspension system in the vehicle was originally designed around a steering box. Most all of the "bolt-on" rack and pinion systems available for these old cars are not without their faults. Racks can be engineered to work for the old Mopars but generally involve an entire K-member swap and eliminating the torsion bar front end to achieve desired results.

 

[Dylan Galvin]

All hydraulic systems make some level of noise. This is why when we developed the steering box we developed with it our Mopar specific vibration reducing coupling. The coupling creates a break in the metal on metal contact of the steering system which prevents the transmission of hydraulic noise through to the steering wheel. Our box does make more hydraulic noise than the factory box as the entire hydraulic valve of the box is smaller and the hose ports are located very close to the input shaft. Our coupling eliminates the transmission of the reported hydraulic noise. The only instances I am aware of regarding noise is when our coupler is not used.

In regards to steering feel, our box is as good as any modern steering box can be. Rack and pinion eliminates many points on the steering linkage where play can develop. In general our opinion is to "create a better box" we are not a rack and pinion company. We go with steering boxes as upgrades for classic cars as the entire steering and suspension system in the vehicle was originally designed around a steering box. Most all of the "bolt-on" rack and pinion systems available for these old cars are not without their faults. Racks can be engineered to work for the old Mopars but generally involve an entire K-member swap and eliminating the torsion bar front end to achieve desired results.

So if I use the coupler from Bergman Auto, will it emit more noise?

 

[BORGESON]

So if I use the coupler from Bergman Auto, will it emit more noise?

I am not an expert on all things Mopar unfortunately. Does the Monaco already have a rag joint at the column in addition to the factory coupler at the box? If so the rag joint will act as your vibration reducer and eliminate the hydraulic noise.

 

[Dylan Galvin]

I'll have to take a look at it tonight, as I'm not sure. Thanks for the information

 

[twostick]

My understanding is the noise is more of a hiss caused by I'm assuming, the hydraulic oil being forced thru some kind of internal restriction or pressure relief bypass. I can't imagine you could hear it inside the car if it is as described.
If so then I suspect anyone complaining about that would bitch if their icecream was cold.

Kevin

 

[saforwardlook]

The report I received from two people who installed the Borgeson boxes was that the noise was annoying (one was in a Charger, the other was in a C body), but I do not know whether they used the company's coupling, but I thought they did because it eased installation of the new box with the Chrysler steering column. If they used the original chrysler coupling, then in the fuselage cars (not the Charger) they have rag joints that should minimize noise as well. I would have to check to know more. I personally find that the original steering box, if adjusted correctly itself for minimum free play will perform pretty well if one sets alignment for maximum caster first and then adjusts camber as needed, and then of course toe. If the alignment isn't set properly, then the car will not steer well, requiring a lot of excessive steering corrections to keep going in a straight line.

There was some previous discussion of this box earlier in this thread:

There were some positive comments from @Frank Odenthal who had done the Borgeson conversion and was very happy with the new box when he did the conversion in Germany, so see this thread for his report:

Firm feel Power steering box

He used the Borgeson coupler too, but he didn't mention anything about noise back in that thread. Maybe he could comment more on that topic if he sees this thread. He did check in with this site this month, so he is currently reachable it seems. His original unit for comparison was a rebuilt from Cardone, so his Cardone box was probably junk to start with (I won't buy anything from Cardone based on my experience with them in the past). But Frank was very happy with the steering feel/precision on the Autobahn in Germany when the Borgeson box and their coupler were used.

 

[Frank Odenthal]

I'm still very happy with the steering feel and faster Ratio of the Borgeson Steering Box. I noticed a Hydraulik Grunt noise under certain driving conditions. I didn't fixed it until yet but I'm pretty sure it is caused by the pressure or return hose transfering Vibration to Chassis or the inner Fender. There is not a lot of room for the hose Routing. Other then that there is no need for improvement.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

If your hearing a hydraulic noise your car is too quiet.

 

[saforwardlook]

If your hearing a hydraulic noise your car is too quiet.

In my view, a car can not be too quiet! Silence means excellence! Torsion-Quiet rules!!

Now let the red Xs form a line!