Break In Oil, Why Change it? Why not change filter only?

1970FuryConv

Old Man with a Hat
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OK. I spend $8 per quart of Joe Gibbs Break in oil, 10W30. I run it for an hour in my 440. It looks like this, level slightly above Full mark. It has 2200-2400 ZDDP parts per million, non-API rated. Sounds like a perfect oil for flat tappet cam 440 engine like mine. Yet because it's break in oil, I'm advised on most websites to change it after 400-500 miles. Why wouldn't I change the filter (to get rid of the assembly lube), pour in another quart, and run it for 3000 miles, then change it? IOW, what makes break in oil bad for engines after a few hundred miles? Thanks, Ben
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Engine break ins generate a lot of microscopic metal fragments, much of this wear metal is too small to be extracted by the oil filter. Leaving the excess metal in the engine creates more wear than is needed for a good break in. Break in oil is also a specialty oil that probably does not have the additives such as anti oxidizing agents that are designed to prolong oil life so that the oil does not break down excessively in a normal service interval.

Dave
 
Oddly enough, break-in oil ALLOWS for wear to take place, specifically the rings. Once they seat at the typical 500 miles, you want that oil OUT, and high quality regular oil (with plenty of ZDDP) IN to stop the wear and protect the surfaces once it's all broken in.
 
OK. I spend $8 per quart of Joe Gibbs Break in oil, 10W30. I run it for an hour in my 440. It looks like this, level slightly above Full mark. It has 2200-2400 ZDDP parts per million, non-API rated. Sounds like a perfect oil for flat tappet cam 440 engine like mine. Yet because it's break in oil, I'm advised on most websites to change it after 400-500 miles. Why wouldn't I change the filter (to get rid of the assembly lube), pour in another quart, and run it for 3000 miles, then change it? IOW, what makes break in oil bad for engines after a few hundred miles? Thanks, Ben
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How much did your engine cost?
 
Engine break ins generate a lot of microscopic metal fragments, much of this wear metal is too small to be extracted by the oil filter. Leaving the excess metal in the engine creates more wear than is needed for a good break in
I agree with this.
Regardless of what brand or type of oil, change out the break in oil after 500 miles.
 
Then again, the first oil change on my forthcoming 2020 Vette is 7500 miles. My, how technology has changed in 50 years.....
 
Then again, the first oil change on my forthcoming 2020 Vette is 7500 miles. My, how technology has changed in 50 years.....

Yeah unless someone on the assembly line had a brain fart after finally getting his dope prescription and had a oops. I don't buy it. I would change it far earlier.
 
Yeah unless someone on the assembly line had a brain fart after finally getting his dope prescription and had a oops. I don't buy it. I would change it far earlier.

Not quite sure what you mean. If the brain farter shortchanged the engine a few quarts, how will changing oil at 100 miles solve the problem that exists as you drive it off the dealer's lot? And the dealer's checklist includes that check, too. Besides, a doped out worker isn't opening cans of oil with one of those spout-cutter things and pouring it in, sloshing a quart or two on the floor in the process. The engines are precisely filled (robotics) and briefly run on natural gas at the Tonawonda engine plant so other robots can listen, feel for balance, and check for "X" power at "X" fuel rate at "X" revs, AND begin the break-in process under controlled conditions. Quite sophisticated, but so is the process for Camry and Kia engines and every other new car out there. 7500-10000 miles. Modern engines are FAR from the technology of a cast iron 383 that essentially dates to the early 1950s....70 years.

There is no reason to not stick to GM's schedule and the free change at 7500, along with the dual clutch transmission filter change at the same time. Nothing is gained with unneeded oil changes, but I will be keeping a careful eye on the dry sump's oil level for the first 2000, topping off if necessary and recording how much. Based on several previous modern Vettes, we're talking ounces of topping, not quarts.
 
Being old school I guess I wouldn't trust anyone or now any machine to clean a block and heads of all machine metal debris. Flush it out.

There is no reason to not stick to GM's schedule and the free change at 7500, along with the dual clutch transmission filter change at the same time. Nothing is gained with unneeded oil changes, but I will be keeping a careful eye on the dry sump's oil level for the first 2000, topping off if necessary and recording how much. Based on several previous modern Vettes, we're talking ounces of topping, not quarts.

Then do it ,,fine with me. You have a warranty card and be sure to sign it and send it in and go for it.
 
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If you kept it clean on assembly, all I ever change is the filter. I cut it open with some snips, and as long as I don't see anything to be concerned about, I slap a new filter on, and change it when the new season comes around. I never seem to get more than about 2000 mi a year on any of my cars so I change it once a year. If you used moly lube on the cam it will clog the filter so that filter needs to come off after cam break in. There is always metal particles in the oil, if you were to have a oil analysis done there is always a PPM of iron, aluminum, bronze, lead, copper, etc. If you have that much metal in the oil after cam break in you already have a problem.
Yes there is still ring seating under load that will take place in the first few miles under heavier loads than high idle break in. Put a magnet on the pan if it concerns you that much. The engine in my Charger uses no oil through a whole season ~2,000 mi you can still see through the oil at the end of the season when checked hot.
I would put the money in the tank as gas rather than another 5 quarts of oil.
 
What might be being missed is that the various oil filter media does not filter ALL of the microscopic "things" from the oil, just down to a certain level and ONLY a percentage of that, according to what I've read on www.bobistheoilguy.com. With continued "passes through the filter", the filter will possibly get MORE of the smaller stuff, but still not all of it.

As mentioned, "break-in" really means that all of the microscopic jagged suerfaces left from the abrasive action against the cyl walls is "worn away", leaving a more-defined hone pattern on the walls. Things which you can ONLY see under a microscope. An article in a British car magazine detailed these facts back in the middle 1980s.

I fully suspect the new Corvette engines are assembled in one of the most automated engine facilities in the world, in Lansing, MI. That facility is completly CLEAN and everything has a computer record for that particular engine build. FAR better than anything to date and many private high-end shops, by observation. There is probagbly a YouTube video of Richard Rawlings "building" an engine up there for his COPOP Camaro race car, from a few years ago. FWIW.

It's that CLEAN engien build that will allow fror the full 7500mile first oil change. But that recommendation has been in GM literature since the middle '70s, too. And it obviously worked then, as now. Be aware, also, that the production engines get a 30-min run-in on a dyno stand before they go to the vehicle assy plant. BTAIM IF there are any issues later on, obviously they are well-calibrated by the perp to not happen immediately, but later. My machine shop operataive was a line mechanic for a larger Chevy dealer and he's told me of some incognito, harder to figure out, things of that nature.

Certainly, the high zddp race and break-in oils are purpose-built products. When the zccp levels get really high, as the Gibbs race oil, keeping a good and active detergency package becomes harder to do. Detergency is a minimal worry if the engine will only run for 600 miles total before tear-down.

IF you want to see how clean an engine build is, install an Oberg oil filter inline. Run it the engine for a good "break-in" period, then pull it apart to see what it's "caught". Right down to red rag lint, usually. Plus other smaller stuff.

To me, changing the oil filter after the first 100 miles or so might be a good idea, adding an appropriate amount of the initial oil fill. Then continuing on as long/short as you might desire.

Enjoy!
CBODY67
 
Being old school I guess I wouldn't trust anyone or now any machine to clean a block and heads of all machine metal debris. Flush it out
Reason enough for self assembly. I know there are plenty of reputable shops and builders out there, but I can read and measure so I'll just handle that myself. When it goes boom, (only happened to me once) I have no one to blame but myself.
Yes, I know what caused my boom and have learned.
 
Being old school I guess I wouldn't trust anyone or now any machine to clean a block and heads of all machine metal debris. Flush it out.

It's safe to say that all of us here are old-school, with our 50+ year old cars. But would we understand the myths and beliefs of the original Model T owners, who dealt with really crappy materials and lubes (relative to the 60's let's say) and their 6:1 compression ratios and leather seals? No, we're far more modern in 1960 than they were! Point is, cars and engines made the past decade have no resemblance to our old days. 10,000 mile oil changes, 100,000 on plugs....and just try to lube the front end! :D If GM thinks 7500 is okay (and I'm betting they've done their homework) why would they allow themselves to be shot in the foot with the warranty work on tens of thousands of dead engines?

Anyway, I need the car first, so I can put 7500 miles on it. Might not be until October.

Back to the OP's important break-in issue and away from modern engines.
 
Engine break ins generate a lot of microscopic metal fragments, much of this wear metal is too small to be extracted by the oil filter. Leaving the excess metal in the engine creates more wear than is needed for a good break in. Break in oil is also a specialty oil that probably does not have the additives such as anti oxidizing agents that are designed to prolong oil life so that the oil does not break down excessively in a normal service interval.

Dave
When we (Caterpillar) do SOS schedule oil sampling for someone one of the things we explain after giving them a sampling kit is this. If you can see material suspended in the oil then it’s too contaminated to sample. If you can physically see the particles there is no way to test the oil. The oil must look clean then we burn it in a gas chromatograph and use the light spectrum to see what’s in it. A very very bad oil sample can look clean as a whistle. We check for suspended metals, silica, etc etc and then can predict what type of failure is imminent. Another thing we confirm is the viscosity which can be degraded over time by dilution. Good luck w your new motor !!! Cheapest repair you can make is clean oil.
 
If GM thinks 7500 is okay (and I'm betting they've done their homework) why would they allow themselves to be shot in the foot with the warranty work on tens of thousands of dead engines?

What GM states here is what is acceptable not necessarily what is ideal i feel. No big deal to me ,your car ,forum discussion , your opinion and mine. Good luck with it ,I'm sure it will be fine. It is covered under warranty!
 
if you hone a cylinder with a stone the abrasives leave peaks and valleys...the desired effect is a plateau finish where the tops of the peaks are knocked flat so the rings are riding on a relatively flat surface with oil control grooves...so how long till the rings break in and how much metal winds up in the oil varies greatly between a new vette engine and something you "honed" yourself...and we also know that the quality of the oil filters out there vary greatly...so i can see a manufacturer wanting to build it so it generates as little metal as possible and leave a known commodity filter on it...additionally a lot of new stuff uses roller cams so cam break in really isnt an issue...as enthusiasts we would want to get the old stuff out immediately and put in something we felt was better but the public would probably go to whatever oil change chain that was cheapest and get crap installed...think thats also why manufacturers are offering free oil changes now
 
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