California Governor signs order to ban gas vehicles by 2035

General Discussion

  1. Yeahrightgreer

    Yeahrightgreer Senior Member

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    I’m sure those of you in California have already heard but it looks like the governor just signed an executive order stating their goal of 100% zero emission passenger cars by 2035 and 100% medium and heavy duty vehicles where possible by 2045.

    California governor signs executive order to ban gas-powered cars and trucks

    A lot of people are fussing but reading the actual verbiage of the order states https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/9.23.20-EO-N-79-20-text.pdf the ban of “new sales” vehicles in 2035.

    It looks like California as always is the first state to adopt this, won’t be long for the other states to follow suite. Better start battery swapping your Mopars!
     
  2. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    Order does not cover used vehicles. Newsom is an idiot and will be long gone as gov before his order would take effect. In any case. the voters of CA still have the initiative process is the choose to use it.

    Dave
     
  3. saforwardlook

    saforwardlook Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    From what I am reading in Automotive News lately, nearly all large vehicle manufacturers are already planning to eliminate new gasoline/diesel powered light duty vehicles (cars and trucks) well before 2035 anyway. And the heavy duty vehicle manufacturers are also looking very hard at battery electric short haul trucks (some even self driving - I personally find that harder to believe) and fuel cell powered long haul trucks.

    Most vehicle manufacturers rely on scientists for their forward planning and accept that climate change is real so they are acting on it and believe their bottom line depends on not being wrong. Their well informed/well-heeled smart investors who make the big bucks in the stock market are also convinced. That is just one reason that Tesla has a market valuation as a company currently that is the largest in the world (even more than Toyota) and whether competition wipes that out in the future is still to be determined but if Tesla keeps up being ahead in successful innovation, they will be hard to catch.

    The guys who trust their "gut" for determining what is blowing in the wind are the ones denying it rather than examining the facts to make their judgments and will be the losers.

    We have been burning fossil fuels enormously in the last 100 years and the bulk of emissions from burning fuel is carbon dioxide (CO2). That is all now in our upper atmosphere from fossil fuel burning (think about how much fuel has been burned in the last 100 years and that might sink in a little). The lifetime of a CO2 molecule is 100 years before it breaks apart into carbon and oxygen again in the upper atmosphere. Such a CO2 layer surrounds this planet now (the actual concentrations are easily measured in the upper atmosphere, so there is little guessing that it is actually up there) and acts like an insulating blanket that doesn't allow heat to radiate outward. That in simple terms is what actual climate scientists have determined. Its not really that complex if you care to actually know anything about this issue.

    What has made America great in the past was depending on scientists and engineers to innovate on technical matters and produce advanced products that the rest of the world wanted before anyone else got there and that made us thrive.

    I have said in the past that "losers" are generally the ones who deny their real problems actually exist until it is too late to successfully address them before they get wiped out.

    What seems to be happening very fast in our world these days is people believing what they want to be true actually is (when it clearly isn't) and living their lives accordingly. That only works for so long before reality comes crashing down on their party. And it only takes a few losers to agree on a "truth" for them to be convinced that they are correct without a doubt even though they have not attempted to determine if what they believe is real or not. Good luck with that...................

    California is the fifth largest economy in the world for good reasons - a statewide university system that is second to none in the world and a lot of successful engineers and scientists innovating their way to prosperity and includes Tesla, Apple and many more in the "silicon valley" and sustainable energy sector and other emerging fields.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
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  4. Mr onetwo

    Mr onetwo Well-Known Member

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    Just take a look at whats going on in the EV conversion world.Battery technology is the bottleneck...too expensive and big/heavy.With the pressure to develop wait and see what batteries look like in 5 years.I would miss the sound of a V8 but nothing else.
     
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  5. odcics2

    odcics2 Well-Known Member

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    This CA law is a moot point.

    I still have contacts at FCA. (been retired after 37 years since 2016)
    They are going all electric way before then...

    One reason you don't hear about: motors can be made cheaper than IC engines!!!
    Batteries are the bottleneck right now...

    We'll all be driving slot cars. Remember how much fun those were?
    Instant torque!!

    Of course, if someone invents "The Transporter", ALL vehicles will become obsolete.
     
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  6. commando1

    commando1 Old Man With a Hat on the Porch FCBO Gold Member

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    @saforwardlook
    Steve, PLEEEZE enlighten me where are we going to get our non-fossil fuel generated electricity from.
    Right at this very moment, all those Teslas hooked up to their charging stations are sucking up electricity and cramming it into on-board storage.
    Enjoy those brown-outs while there's still enough electricity to dole out on an as-needed basis.
     
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  7. rkrochen

    rkrochen Well-Known Member

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    Not only is there a shortage of electricity in places already but what about the infrastructure that will be required to support all the battery home chargers as well as commercial ones. Not sure the present grids can accommodate the additional load. Then you need qualified and competent people to do the work as well as a steady stream of components. Not as easy as it sounds.
    A simple solution would be if all the suppliers joined forces (Not going to happen) and developed a common easily replaced battery that could be swapped out at stations. It would be like a battery exchange program where all the batteries were maintained at the stations and only rented by the drivers.
     
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  8. rapidtrans

    rapidtrans Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    I’ll offer again.
    How far off is it to consider a liberal government taking over the building of a national electrical grid for transportation power. Cause we know some states can’t manage their own power as it is now. With their hand on the switch expect nation wide brown-outs and perhaps selective distribution of power.
    Currently, the ability to hop in your car and drive across country for no reason at all is one of our great freedoms.
     
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  9. odcics2

    odcics2 Well-Known Member

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    Sure would be nice if the politicians were all out of it, both sides, and an energy policy for the entire United States could be implemented FOR THE PEOPLE.
     
  10. mikedrini

    mikedrini Active Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Of course when you say "FOR THE PEOPLE", I am assuming what you mean is the people paying taxes right?
     
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  11. BLUPORT

    BLUPORT Carpe Diem Cras FCBO Gold Member

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    California can't even keep power on through a Summer heat wave, and they want millions of people to add EVs to the grid... Clowns.
     
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  12. stubs300

    stubs300 Senior Member

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    No, that would also include the Wetbacks first, Taxpayers get what's leftover!!!
     
  13. BLUPORT

    BLUPORT Carpe Diem Cras FCBO Gold Member

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    You're such a racist piece of shit, @stubs300
     
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  14. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    The electric cars should probably be an option for folks who do not need to drive great distances. That having been said, CA has made it nearly impossible to build new nuclear or gas fired power plants. That leaves wind and solar. Solar has its own issues, the panels, the good ones, have a life expectancy of about 20-30 years before they need to be replaced. That will have to be factored in to power rates as the panels do not have a long life. No one has yet devised a cost effective way to recycle solar panels. Same is also true of the expended car/truck batteries. I suppose CA could convert the burned out, mismanaged forest areas of the state to solar farms and landfills to dispose of the electronic waste.

    In OR, we have some large wind farms that generate power in the Columbia Gorge. These facilities are wind dependent, so they will never be the primary power generation source. BPA estimated that at max wind might be able to provide 15% of all power generation, any more than that would make the grid unstable, think brownouts.

    One of the other issues, aside for cost for large freight trucks that are battery powered is the fact that an electric semi tractor will require a battery pack that weighs close to 10k to get a 400 mile range. That translates out to higher freight rates because the batteries reduce the truck payload. I guess one can hope that someday a light weight, quick charge battery will be feasible, but we are not there yet.

    I guess the other question that needs to be asked is how the conversion to a non-carbon transport and a non carbon based electrical grid is going to be paid for. Solar panel mandates for new construction ramp up housing costs. CA has a major homeless problem now and raising construction costs is only going to make that problem worse because low income individuals can not afford rents in the current market and certainly can not afford higher rents due to higher priced housing.

    I think the CA plan is a pipe dream based on current costs and technology. Time will tell, but in the meantime, CA residents should prepare for much higher freight, power and housing costs.

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
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  15. odcics2

    odcics2 Well-Known Member

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    To clarify, I meant the PEOPLE versus big business, which rules the politicians.

    Time for a lot of folks to think for themselves.
    Why base your ideas on TV talking heads ? They're just after ratings, so they can line their pockets!! Think they give two shits about you? :rofl:
     
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  16. 413

    413 Well-Known Member

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    Yep and they want the employed taxpayers to fund all of it

    342A480F-C7DE-4232-82A5-5DECF6E406ED.jpeg
     
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  17. mikedrini

    mikedrini Active Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Leading to a mass exodus into neighboring states, I'm looking at you Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, etc.-keep your eyes open. Whereby they can then impact those states ala what is happening in my home state in regards to our "oh-so-friendly-neighbors" to the south. Don't move to another state only to say "You guys should do things the way we do them in my previous state". Somewhat akin to immigrants-legal or otherwise-flocking to this beautiful country doing and saying the same thing.
     
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  18. stubs300

    stubs300 Senior Member

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    They are what they are! You've never lived there so you have no idea where Americans stand as citizens in that state! I'm sorry that the truth hurts your sorry ass!
     
  19. saforwardlook

    saforwardlook Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    Just because we in California have not reached our goal yet of mostly renewable energy sources that doesn't mean it isn't worth working on that goal to achieve solutions that the rest of the world will also buy. There were no brownouts in my area of California this year when the temperatures were at record highs 121F in the northern Los Angeles regions and many Teslas in use all around me. Many of the brown outs were due to electric utilites wanting the power grid shut down to prevent further fires from falling power lines and other similar issues, not to to prevent overload to the system.

    What California is doing is what the USA did in the past to make us great - and denying science and ignoring the problems are what losers do, like in todays powerful in Washington DC. California embarks on solutions that have promise and we innovate to make them come true. It took us 40 years to mostly eliminate smog in the state (at least from new vehicles that are combustion powered that gradually took over the fleet). But we did it and went it alone when the EPA just deferred to the California Air Resources Board to lead that charge and then adopted the standards California adopted a few years later for the other federal states. The California Air Resources Board is the agency that developed the OBD II system requirements with no assistance from anyone else except working in concert with the automobile industry and it is in virtually every new car sold in the world today (the regulation is over 120 pages long!). Industry fought it tooth and nail but we prevailed with good engineering, sound thinking and working cooperatively with the auto industry to make it happen and it is now used as the basis for smog checks in many states rather than a cumbersome tail pipe emission test. And an OBD II check takes only a couple minutes. Try diagnosing problems with the electronic control systems on the newer cars these days without it - good luck!

    California was also at the table with the EPA and NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) in developing the national fuel economy standards set during the former administration and now trying to be rolled back by the current administration. We worked with the auto industry and did our own independent modeling of new technologies and benefits using the same well-known researchers/consultants that the auto industry itself uses. The technologies we converged on were mostly the same ones the auto industry was pursuing. And we gradually attained consensus and agreement on those standards until this administration has tried to scale them back. Some manufacturers such as Ford, BMW, Volvo and I think it was VW are still agreeing to meet the California standards that can not be rolled back without a court battle that will take time to settle.

    But the technologies developed over the last 30 some years for emission control systems combined with the advanced technologies of cars getting better fuel economy have enabled boosted, precision controlled fuel systems and downsized engines in cars like the Hellcat Redeyes to actually be built for commercial sale that develop as much as 800HP and still meet emission standards and get decent fuel economy at the same time. 30 years ago, probably everyone would have laughed at us if we had predicted in 30 years such cars would ever be available. In the discussions with EPA and NHTSA, California held the tightest on the standards that eventually emerged and were set. The proposed rollback is really a joke and EPA staff know it but they can't say anything these days with a muzzle on the technical staff's mouths and it was NHTSA that was given the responsibility to cut back the standards because they wanted to do the least during the discussions. And both California and EPA staffs know the analysis NHTSA did for this administration is deeply flawed with wrong assumptions to get their revised numbers and try to justify them. In short, today's new vehicles have California fingerprints all over them. Enjoy!

    So no, we do not yet have good enough power generation in our state, but that doesn't mean that we can't work our hardest with our best to get well towards the goal sooner than later. And there are many business interests that are looking hard at also working on new business ventures.

    So go ahead and conclude the road ahead is impossible but we in California at least will show you how to do it no matter how long it takes. If the rest of the US had our vision and work ethic rather than spend their time denying what is real and working as hard as they can to ruin this country, then go ahead. We will beat you and really make America great again.

    The current BS going on in much of the rest of the nation is just ruining our country and dividing us up and creating chaos. Someone needs to explain to me the roadmap that is being used currently in the U.S. to make us great - I just don't see it. And the rest of the world is pitying us for what we have become and wonder how it happend so fast.

    If you are scared of the possibility of failure or very hard work ahead, California doesn't need you nor your wimpering.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
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  20. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    With all the faith in science and technology, is that why CA has half the homeless population and 1/3 of all welfare recipients? If they do half as good a job on green energy as they do on social problems, it should be fun to watch.

    Dave
     
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  21. BLUPORT

    BLUPORT Carpe Diem Cras FCBO Gold Member

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    ...I lived in Pomona. Try again.
     
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