Can’t win with remanufactured carbs

Engine, Transmission & Driveline

  1. Joseph James

    Joseph James Well-Known Member

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    i have a great idle, driving daily. WOT has no power. Light gas pedal is okay and it more it will surge its way into a throaty sound with power. Past that point it is stumbling. Surges like missing fuel or too much air. New fuel filter on, fuel pump is good.

    Going to pull it Sunday and check metering rods and jets. Running like lean with heavy pedal. Driving very easy at the moment. Rebuild date was 2016, so it sat on the shelf a while.

    Also might redo intake manifold gasket. Friend did it when we changed engine and I wasn’t thrilled with how he did it. Pretty sure I am getting too much air somewhere. Vacuum at idle is 18” Hg.
     
  2. 300C

    300C Member FCBO Gold Member

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    I finally gave up on the Holley 4160 on my '68 300, 440-4v...many similar problems and after several re-builds later I gave in and took it to the local carb guru whose work is terrific. His reputation is well-known and respected and he has done a number of carbs for me. He told me not to bother rebuilding it. They were a bad design. Really? He then told me that, at least on this model and year, Chrysler had Holley "spec" these carbs to their way of thinking...maybe economy in mind? Whatever, but I finally installed a 750cfm Edelbrock and electric choke and NEVER looked back. The car runs better than ever. It starts all the time, the choke works, and the performance is ridiculous.....in a good way. I'm having carb troubles on my '64 Imp and I'm going the same route. I didn't want to dump the Holley on the '68 but I feel your pain, and the Edlebrock did the trick. I'm guessing it's gonna wake up the 413 on the Imp, too!. Good luck!
     
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  3. rexus31

    rexus31 Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Your cars all appear to be restored to factory spec. How did you deal with the wiring for the electric choke?
     
  4. 300C

    300C Member FCBO Gold Member

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    I don't show the '68 300 at AACA or similar events so while I do try to maintain a level of authenticity I threw my hands up with the Holley carbs. I rebuilt that thing several times and it would run great then start getting stupid. Later I even bought a new 4160 but the same problems came about. WHen the car was relatively new I remember my dad fighting with the dealer about poor performance and turns out that on very first OEM carb there was a warped metering block from Holley. This was an industry-wide issue on those carbs, so we were told. Chrysler replaced the factory carb and then later troubles began. When the re-builder basically refused to rebuild the 4160 not too long ago and explained his take on the Holley, I left with his suggestion of replacing it with the Edlebrock.

    The electric choke, you're right, would NEVER fly at AACA. Blasphemy! When I do the Imperial I will try to hide the wire as best I can. The Imp and 300C are senior grand winners so I can so some tweaking in the interest of driving the cars a bit more than I have been. We also know that our current fuels are not friendly and depsite attempts to rebuild in view of ethanol, the gasoline just doesn't do these yachts justice. :mob:
     
  5. rexus31

    rexus31 Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Thanks. Where do you pull the power from? Are you having to splice the factory harness?
     
  6. 300C

    300C Member FCBO Gold Member

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    The choke is wired into the ballast resistor per the photos attached. All good, no problems at all. Works great, any time, all the time!

    carb choke3.png

    carb choke2.png
     
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  7. Chrome58

    Chrome58 Active Member

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    I'm riddled with carb problems on my primary WCFB on my 2 x 4-bbl set up ('58 Belvedere). Rebuilt twice the damned carb (after it was professionally rebuilt), and it still is a mess (leaking gas, flooding the engine, poor hot start ...).

    Your thread is pushing me further to consider going the aftermarket route with such an Edelbrock carb or even the FiTech injection setup.
     
  8. 67Monaco

    67Monaco Old Man with a Hat

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    Check the fuel pump pushrod length. A few folks have had similar issues that trace back to a worn pushrod.
     
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  9. jct

    jct Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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  10. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Chrysler went to the 4160 to pass emissions on the lower performing big block engines, with the added benefit of better fuel economy. These carbs were a piece of shit from the get go. The secondaries were often inoperative due to a poor design of the vacuum port on the primary that was supposed to open the secondary. Trouble was that usually it took 3500-4000 rpms to get enough vacuum for the secondary to open. The fuel bowls, throttle plates and carb bodies all had issues with warping that made the effected carbs junk. The carb also had small internal passages that clogged readily. All and all it was a poor design and replacing the carb with another like it usually resulted in the same problems happening over and over.

    Dave
     
  11. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Senior Member

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    The local Chrysler dealer would swap out the 4160s for prior model year Carter 4bbls. The Holleys, back then, needed a rebuild yearly, due to the quality of their gaskets. The warped metering blocks, I remember some talk of that, too. At a time when my younger and impressional mind had been seeing how Holleys were "the performance carb" in all of the car magazines.

    In later years, I bought some new emissions-spec Holleys for my Camaro. Initially, a 4160, which had NONE of the prior issues I'd always heard about. Later replaced it with a 4175 vac secondary spreadbore, again, emissions-spec and it worked great and also increased my fuel mileage 2mpg. Be that as it may.

    When I put the 600 cfm 4160 on my 305 Camaro, I had to swap to a softer spring for the secondary diaphragm in order to get it to open. I did some road tests to determine that it was opening and at what genera rpm under load.

    The 4160 actually was the OEM 4bbl for Ford V-8s in 1958. One part number for all V-8s, 352-430. Same metering specs, too. Chrysler's first use was on the '67 440 (New Yorker), as I recall. They ran well, from what I knew of them. Key thing, back then, was to use a quality carb kit, for the better gaskets. But when they had issues, they had ISSUES. More were cussed in the Chrysler arena, than not, with the Carter 4bbls being the "no maintenance" carbs of choice at the local dealership. Yet the car magazines touted the Holleys as better. Funny that I didn't know of similar issues with Holleys for other brands of cars, back then.

    I you look around enough, you can find some 1-to-2 adapters to run two wires from one male terminal. I ran the electric choke wire across the top of the cowl, with other wires, then took it to the inside of the valve cover area with the distributor power wire. Then, use factory-style connector insulators on the new terminal/wire. Unless you know what you're looking at, it's invisible. Same with the later electronic ignition distributor wires.

    Hopefully, the point dings for the "incorrect carb" won't be too much to keep you from the awards ceremony!

    Just some thoughts,
    CBODY67
     
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  12. live4theking

    live4theking Old Man with a Hat

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    When I bought my first 68 NYer in 94 it had the factory Holley. I could get 19mpg on the highway. Then it developed issues all sorts of issues right about 100k miles.
    My current NYer has the factory carb and is running fine at this point. I'm not sure what I'll do if it fits on me. Probably an Edelbrock.
     
  13. Joseph James

    Joseph James Well-Known Member

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    I cracked open the carburetor today. It’s a reman. Found a screw holding throttle body loose. Backed up timing a little and it runs the best it has so far. Still have a acceleration miss, so time to examine plugs and wires. Definitely running better. Had a bad shudder at light throttle or WOT. White plugs. Much better now.
     
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  14. 5wndwcpe

    5wndwcpe Active Member

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    If you decide to have it (or another one) rebuilt, give Dave a shout. He's done a few for board members here. Outstanding work and follow through.
    Just Bought A Carburetor Shop
     
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  15. Joseph James

    Joseph James Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that information. I do have one more I didn’t send in for the core. Might be a good idea to have a spare.
     
  16. BLUPORT

    BLUPORT Carpe Diem Cras FCBO Gold Member

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    Agreed, the carb I got from @Dana came tuned near perfection.
     
  17. 70bigblockdodge

    70bigblockdodge Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    Dave at Woodruff's will get it right.
     
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  18. furyusvip

    furyusvip Member

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    What part of the country are you in? Have you talked to the crew at Whitehall Auto Restorations in Hopkinton, Massachusetts (508) 435- 3442 they do AMAZING work on the early dual carb Chryslers. Might be worth a call.