saylor
Senior Member
I got a carb for you $125 and shipping to your front door. let me know.
- saylor
- saylor
Carb OPINIONS Desired...
- Thread starter cantflip
- Start date
can't beat saylors deal.
summit racing has rebates on new and also offers remans . https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-9906/overview/
summit racing has rebates on new and also offers remans . https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-9906/overview/
I do not have experience with the Holley 1900 carburetors, but a friend of mine used a street Demon on his Challenger 383 engine and is pleased with it. I was thinking if I went with Holley, in my case, I would like to replicate most of the appearance of the original Holley 4160s on the standard 440s in 1970 on my Chrysler 300s and also have the external bowl vent that they had from the factory to keep fuel temperatures at a minimum compared to internal bowl vents only that all carburetors have. Those external bowl vents in 1970 were plumbed to the breather cap so that fuel vapors would go to the crankcase, but I would not do that for various reasons such as oil dilution, etc. So the modern Holley replacement that I was considering was this one, or one close to it, although it is pricey:
Holley 0-80451 600 CFM Stock Replacement Carburetor - Holley Performance Products
I might add that carbon canisters are for the purpose of capturing evaporative fuel vapors from the fuel tank and from the carburetor bowl to prevent HC emission from escaping into the atmosphere and creating smog (HC + NOx emissions react in sunlight to create smog). Carburetors with external bowl vents also have a purge port to purge or clean the vapors out of the carbon canister to keep them available to store more vapor later (the primary purpose of carbon canisters is not really to keep atmospheric pressue in the tank, although it does serve that function too. It is to store excess fuel vapors). I like the external bowl vents for keeping fuel vapors from going into the engine on hot days and creating hot start problems and for keeping the fuel cooler than it would be without one, thereby minimizing the potential for vapor lock. I have never experiencef fuel spill over on any cars that I have ever had with them.
I would personally keep EGR on your engine, but use one of the smaller diameter valve openings. In this way, using today's crappy low octane gasoline, you can advance timing a little more than without EGR and get better overall fuel economy that without EGR. Most modern engines have EGR for maximizing fuel economy and keeping higher compression ratios and even the turbo engines use it (but cooled with a cooler) to maximize cylinder pressures for maximum fuel economy. One way to get to the 54.5 MPG (test cycle number - actual real world fuel economy would be about 39 mpg) is to do what Ford does with its Ecoboost engines that use cooled EGR and force it into the engines to get the maximum cylinder pressures for best fuel economy. If the EPA would push harder for higher octane base fuels in the U.S. like in Europe, for example, it would be a lot easier for manufacturers to meet the 2025 fleet standards. I do not recall if your EGR system on your 1976 440 has a vacuum amplifier to run the EGR, but I would not use that device since they are not durable and are problemattic. I would just run the direct ported EGR valve by teeing into the distributor vacuum port on the carburetor. With a smaller valve, you don't need a vacuum delay device and using one would not help off the line low speed spark knock that you would need to address if advancing your timing. I would never do without vacuum advance on any street engine by the way, as doing so just hurts fuel economy and increases exhaust temperatures and leads to early valve problems (I only mention this because I have seen a lot of guys get a performance Mallory or other distributor and run their street engines with no vacuum advance - it is one of the worst things one could do). But I know you are knowledgeable enough to not do this in any case.
The Horvaths
Young man with a cowboy hat
Carter 4327S. It worked for the factory...
I've had great success with the 4131S on our 383's. The 4131S is 570 CFM so it may be closer to what you want. I believe the 4327S is 750CFM. Whatever carb you get, you need to have a strip kit for it.
I've had great success with the 4131S on our 383's. The 4131S is 570 CFM so it may be closer to what you want. I believe the 4327S is 750CFM. Whatever carb you get, you need to have a strip kit for it.
That would take all the guess work out of the equation as you can see everything going on in real time. I had to do this on my glhs omni to even have a chance of getting things correct being that it is highly modified. A wide band o2 with readout.
Here is a new post here on FCBO from today using one.
Did a couple of things today
I'm finding new from $310... $300 for factory reman doesn't compute. Thank you for the link.
If I get to where I want to go more accurate than spark plug/vacuum readings... I will try to angle for some dyno time. I think I can get access to one without too much trouble, but it is hard to guess what such favors will cost me in the long run. With EFI there is no way I would want a system that doesn't data log... Your tuning scan tool should do this via a record function... that way you can find/fix momentary glitches in the tune. Thanks though, I had considered an A/F sensor on my bus in the past... too big to do it any other way, but too much $$$ for very little gain I decided.
Thanks for weighing in... 750 is too big for my interest. My goal is to see how much I think the smaller carb/higher velocities improve my normal cruising. I don't plan to change compression at this time, and I have no desire to tune based heavy on WOT as I will very seldom(very, very seldom) be there. I like the 570CFM thought, it may be a bit small for my 440, but would likely fit my driving style and goals nicely.
Appearance is not a factor for me, I do plan to go through some pain keeping a stock type air cleaner on it. It should never be seen if I do it right. With a heavy float, I could see fuel getting outside the carb, but I plan to use the canister if possible... mostly I dislike the thought of dirt/insects having a path in.
Thanks for the EGR tip...now I have something else to research
. I haven't checked the 76 for a vacuum amplifier, but the 74's have them, and my eventual goal is to use my best results from the 76 on them. Also don't really get an EGR timer and thermo-vacuum switch on the same system. They must have had some scenario they were trying to work around, maybe a driver who couldn't be bothered to wait for oil pressure prior to take off. My bus, 427 chevy and 34k GVWR, has a factory Holley (4150 I think) and a non vacuum advance GM HEI distributor... I have often thought it would benefit me to add a vacuum advance as it has to be retarded enough to cause heat issues... I do understand not pushing advanced with that much load however. Hate the fuel bowls on my Holley as they are non-external needle and seat type. When last rebuilt, I was happy enough with the performance and 6-7 MPG or I would have tried an Ede sooner.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Couple things to keep in mind with factory Carter carbs. Once you take it off the engine it belongs on or rebuild it anything but dead stock even changing to dual exhaust or everyone's favorite hp manifolds your calibrations are off on a worn carb, Eddy's are a little easier to tune. Factory AVS does not have Venturi's on the secondary side the air valve makes the venturi by creating a low pressure area because it does not open fully. The TQ does this also but it opens fully and has a bent tab on trailing edge to create low pressure area. The Eddy thunder series actually has a venturi and booster in secondaries for a better carburetor on the 800 the primaries are still large for low speed driveability so the 600 would be better.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Much ado about something where you're going to end up simply popping on an Eddie out of the box... 
65Fury440
Senior Member
I have an AVS 4966s carb that needs to be gone through. It worked but has shelved for a few years. Make me an offer and come get it.
Ok for what it is worth I called Edelbrock and got the carb tech . I asked if there have been any running changes to the design of the 1406 carb in the past and he said no. I then asked if the jets and metering rods are the same as when first produced and he said yes they were. I mentioned the problem of hesitation on tip in and he said there is an adjustment [as we all know ] on the accelerator pump arm but also mentioned #1475 which are an assortment of accelerator pump nozzels that could help the problem.
Sorry I don't have more.
Sorry I don't have more.
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commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Must be the gas...
First, I want to be clear... I started the thread to welcome opinions and FCBO distracted behaviors. I didn't want someone else getting worked up I had "polluted" their thread. Thanks to those who have already made this a nice thread on the subject. All may feel free to add to this, it is after all opinions.
I will happily accept the "I told you so" later... I do realize many of you have made the change on similar equipment already and there is a proven result.
I saw some of your experience with the demon in the past... love to get a little recap, especially about any tuning required and what CFM/engine mods are involved.
Dave, you're still more mechanic than many mechanics I know. The first step on a used one would be a good cleanup/rebuild and making certain nothing was worn out. Can you or anyone else tell me if you have had any luck with the later/available tuning kits on these older carbs? Edelbrock's website seems to show they are not compatible with other models.
Thanks for the leg work and the PN... sure to help someone, maybe me.
Just because you are probably entirely and completely right about this, does not mean I am ready for that reality at this moment... besides, I'm having fun looking and thinking this one out. I don't have the $2000 budget to do what I would really like and just buy and experiment with a bunch of them, so this seems to be the second best at the moment.Much ado about something where you're going to end up simply popping on an Eddie out of the box...
I will happily accept the "I told you so" later... I do realize many of you have made the change on similar equipment already and there is a proven result.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
I do not know I have never really tried to mess with a old Carter besides a TQ. The reason the Holley that is on my Challenger to this day is because the original AVS floats would stick and flood usually at a intersection or other inconvenient place after a probably a half dozen attempts to get this to stop I went to Super Shops and bought the 750cfm 4150, on sale, that is on my car to this day. Of course this was all done when I was waaaay younger and probably missed what was really wrong with the car. Other than farting around with TQs all of which are lean burn carbs which you just need to fatten them up (drill the long tube jets out) to run better they are never to rich. I have within the last few years been seeing the light so to speak with Eddy carbs. A devout Holley guy till wanting to get better fuel mileage brought me around.
saylor
Senior Member
SUPER SHOPS ! ! ! ! !
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Not all. Only the 76½ and up...
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
I mean all the ones I messed with mostly because nobody wanted them at the time.
If we were back in the 80's I would already be trying to get a $20 QJ to work... I miss the days of choosing my next carb or distributor based on if I could flop the hood out of the way so I could stand on the cowl to pull it.
I never did find a real liking for the 4150/4160 Holleys... I know the kits for tuning have been there all along and I know they are kinda easy to work on... I have found them to be a bit finicky and unreliable if they weren't set right or had the slightest contamination... but I really never worked on enough to have a good read on them. Many of the ones i did deal with were the "one size fits all" el cheapos from Whitlock or Whitney.
BTW, I am still leanburn free... and thankful.
Cheap bastardism seems to be working... I have won a 1406 from EB that appears to not have been used as an artificial reef or tuned with a hammer. $75 incl shipping... I have the proper adapter coming, just need to get a rebuild kit and tuning kit together for my playtime amusement.
I will find out next weekend if I need the linkage kit... carb is due to arrive Wednesday. Thanks for the offers, the ones I accepted, it still accept. I just wanted a way to prove this to myself, not that I don't trust or value the opinions of others. I also plan to do my first Mobil1 15w50 oil change on my currently dry NYB 440 and work on giving her some mileage to see if I develop any leaks... I doubt it, but may as well dispell the myth before committing to a larger quantity. I will only go bulk oil if I find a price that makes it worth my while.
On the down side, I may have picked up a bad batch of fuel... I knew better than 7-11... but I let convenience and poor planning get me. I was thinking I had fouled the plugs on the NYB, which I have been driving a fair amount, when I picked up the local news story about the fuel. Good thing I was already headed into this and it was the "ugly car". BTW every week or so I drive it I seem to lose more paint in the parking lot... sure glad I haven't subjected the black ones to my "natural environment".
I will find out next weekend if I need the linkage kit... carb is due to arrive Wednesday. Thanks for the offers, the ones I accepted, it still accept. I just wanted a way to prove this to myself, not that I don't trust or value the opinions of others. I also plan to do my first Mobil1 15w50 oil change on my currently dry NYB 440 and work on giving her some mileage to see if I develop any leaks... I doubt it, but may as well dispell the myth before committing to a larger quantity. I will only go bulk oil if I find a price that makes it worth my while.
On the down side, I may have picked up a bad batch of fuel... I knew better than 7-11... but I let convenience and poor planning get me. I was thinking I had fouled the plugs on the NYB, which I have been driving a fair amount, when I picked up the local news story about the fuel. Good thing I was already headed into this and it was the "ugly car". BTW every week or so I drive it I seem to lose more paint in the parking lot... sure glad I haven't subjected the black ones to my "natural environment".
Dobalovr
Being on the Cbody diet SUCKS!
You will post some pics of the rebuild right?
Nice find!
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