I know this is not about a C Body, but you all a great source. What make and model is this carb? It is on my original 1975 Cordoba - 360 2 bbl.? I need to buy a rebuilt kit, it doesn't want to run very smooth!
Carb Question
- Thread starter Moseman
- Start date
Holley 2245. Make sure the heat crossover is open and not plugged with carbon. It really makes all the difference on these cars.
Look at the photos, I just fixed one, look at the plugged heat crossover. This car ran terrible, Like a total POS. Now after the clean out it runs like a top.
The crossover in the intake should be hot in just a few minutes of running, and very hot after driving. If not it needs cleaned out. I know racers like to block this but on a stock engine and carb it is not a benefit to have the intake cold.
Look at the photos, I just fixed one, look at the plugged heat crossover. This car ran terrible, Like a total POS. Now after the clean out it runs like a top.
The crossover in the intake should be hot in just a few minutes of running, and very hot after driving. If not it needs cleaned out. I know racers like to block this but on a stock engine and carb it is not a benefit to have the intake cold.
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70NEWYORKER
Well-Known Member
These late model smog motors need the heat to vaporize the lean mixture. If the intake gets too cold these engines will buck and surge. Also make sure the air cleaner hot air system is working.
bigmoparjeff
Senior Member
Good luck.
Those are one of the worst carburetors ever made.
You could have huge pile of them and still not have one that runs right.
I have one that actually runs well, and I have to move it from car to car any time I need to run one of my 360 or 400 2bbl. cars.
The accelerator pump check valve seat erodes, causing a bad stumble off idle that you can't get rid of. Sometimes you can clean the seat up with a drill bit, but it's not uncommon for the bit to go right through the bottom of the carb before the seat cleans up. The pro rebuilders probably have a way to deal with this, though I've seen plenty of these that were professionally rebuilt and they still don't run right.
Jeff
Those are one of the worst carburetors ever made.
You could have huge pile of them and still not have one that runs right.
I have one that actually runs well, and I have to move it from car to car any time I need to run one of my 360 or 400 2bbl. cars.
The accelerator pump check valve seat erodes, causing a bad stumble off idle that you can't get rid of. Sometimes you can clean the seat up with a drill bit, but it's not uncommon for the bit to go right through the bottom of the carb before the seat cleans up. The pro rebuilders probably have a way to deal with this, though I've seen plenty of these that were professionally rebuilt and they still don't run right.
Jeff
If I was to keep the car completely stock, then I need one of these. But... if not, anyone recommend another two barrel carb? This car is a pretty pristine, almost show quality doba with Houndstooth interior.
68PK21 440.6bbl
Old Man with a Hat
If anyone does this service make sure that the intake crossover is clean and free of this carbon. When I did my badly heat riser clogging to bring back cold weather drivability on my 318, I started cleaning out the intake manifold gasket area I had to dig real deep. A lot of long screwdriver poking/chipping away and blowing out with the air hose to get it pretty much all cleaned out. PITA & YMMV.
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68PK21 440.6bbl
Old Man with a Hat
Have you ever rebuilt a carb before?
That looks to be a fairly clean engine bay, I'd suggest getting all the numbers off the carb ie remove the carb and get the body numbers and any other tag number if any (revision) then do your own research for the correct kit part number and go from there. There is and has always been many 'That'll work' part suppliers. Make sure you get a good kit as that carb really doesn't look too bad and you may get away with a carb can spray clean and not having to dip it.
Yes, it is good clean car. Pictures from my detailer today as it sits in my shop.
Oh, I stand corrected, this one has Aztec interior!
bigmoparjeff
Senior Member
A carb kit isn't a big investment, so it's certainly worth giving it a try. Maybe you'll luck out and it will work fine. If it doesn't, I'd give our FCBO sponsor Woodruff Carburetors a call and see if they have any luck with them. If they do, I'd send it off to them.
There are some older carbs that will bolt right on, but they will have a much richer calibration and could damage the catalytic converter if your Cordoba is so equipped.
Jeff
With all due respect, that Holley 2210 (non-EGR) or Holley 2245 (with EGR) is, from my experiences with two of them, a pretty decently designed carb. More throttle responsive and more economical than the Stromberg WWC 2bbl on our '66 Newport 383.
It is not hard to rebuild, either. The ONLY real issue with them, from my use and research, is that the upper housing under the air cleaner stud will gradually pull upward and expose the power valve vacuum passage to open air, along with breaching the seal between the float bowl and the venturi area of the carb. Which means the power valve is open all of the time, which also means about 11mpg no matter what. It can further erode cold engine warmup as raw fuel from the float bowl is sucked into the venturi area/throttle bores as the choke blade is closed. Chrysler had a "bridge kit" to fix that, which is an easy install, also.
The heat crossover coking issue seems to be an LA engine issue. When the passge clogs, then the automatic choke ceases to function as it should. The only fix is to chip everything out of the passage. The clogging is typically the result of short-trip driving, as many of the '66 Belvederes the local dealer sold to elderly ladies, who probably did not drive over about 5 miles at a time, had that issue by the time the cars had 60k miles on them. Except in warmer weather, the chokes never got a chance to fully open, so then when the automatic chokes started to cause the engines to not run well, they'd be in the service department getting those heat crossover passages cleaned out.
Although ethanol'd fuel has been with us a good while, make sure that the accel pump cup is compatible with it. In whatever kit you might find. This is ONE place where NOS is not desirable. BUT, do get an OEM-type carb base gasket to go with the kit. Most of the ones in the kits are thin, cardboard type gaskets rather than the 1/4" thick OEM-style gaskets.
Nice Cordoba!
Just my experiences and such, which might vary from others.
CBODY67
It is not hard to rebuild, either. The ONLY real issue with them, from my use and research, is that the upper housing under the air cleaner stud will gradually pull upward and expose the power valve vacuum passage to open air, along with breaching the seal between the float bowl and the venturi area of the carb. Which means the power valve is open all of the time, which also means about 11mpg no matter what. It can further erode cold engine warmup as raw fuel from the float bowl is sucked into the venturi area/throttle bores as the choke blade is closed. Chrysler had a "bridge kit" to fix that, which is an easy install, also.
The heat crossover coking issue seems to be an LA engine issue. When the passge clogs, then the automatic choke ceases to function as it should. The only fix is to chip everything out of the passage. The clogging is typically the result of short-trip driving, as many of the '66 Belvederes the local dealer sold to elderly ladies, who probably did not drive over about 5 miles at a time, had that issue by the time the cars had 60k miles on them. Except in warmer weather, the chokes never got a chance to fully open, so then when the automatic chokes started to cause the engines to not run well, they'd be in the service department getting those heat crossover passages cleaned out.
Although ethanol'd fuel has been with us a good while, make sure that the accel pump cup is compatible with it. In whatever kit you might find. This is ONE place where NOS is not desirable. BUT, do get an OEM-type carb base gasket to go with the kit. Most of the ones in the kits are thin, cardboard type gaskets rather than the 1/4" thick OEM-style gaskets.
Nice Cordoba!
Just my experiences and such, which might vary from others.
CBODY67
I run ethanol free gas in all of my 70's cars. I am now conflicted. I have a Holley rebuild kit coming along with a new fuel pump. (should I just buy a rebuilt carb?) The car takes quite a bit of priming to start (ole gas can to the carb trick), and need to keep the rpm's up to run. My detailer could not get it to run, so they pushed it around. I can keep it running, but I am used to that in Chryslers. As usual, ran when parked about a year ago!
bigmoparjeff
Senior Member
I would say buying a rebuilt carb would be a last resort. You are looking around $200 for one of those.
A friend of mine bought some new old stock rebuilds off of ebay for his '73 Fury and it took a few tries to get one that worked.
Jeff
A friend of mine bought some new old stock rebuilds off of ebay for his '73 Fury and it took a few tries to get one that worked.
Jeff
tbm3fan
Old Man with a Hat
In the beginning I had gone through three Holley 2210s on my car. I rebuilt the first and that didn't improve its ability to run smoothly. I then tried another that I got and rebuilt with the same problem. I then got a rebuilt one and it was the worst of the bunch with the idle speed ranging between 500-900 with the car just sitting there. I wished there was a guy like Jon at Pony Carb who rebuilt Ford carbs and improved upon them and rid them of their shortcomings. However, he passed away around the time I got the car and the business wasn't able to survive without him. Fed up I went with what I know and looked to see if I could fit a Motorcraft 2150 which is an updated version of the tried and true Autolite 2100. Once I got that on, after finding the right adapter, the car has run smoothly, flawlessly, and it easy to tune. It was here where I learned of the top getting warped but the swap was already done and working too well to try Holley again.
You got a really nice Cordoba much like the one my father had for one year. I can understand being OEM as I am a stickler for that myself. However, I'm a bigger stickler for a smooth running engine and car.
You got a really nice Cordoba much like the one my father had for one year. I can understand being OEM as I am a stickler for that myself. However, I'm a bigger stickler for a smooth running engine and car.
bigmoparjeff
Senior Member
Since you're here,
Can you usually rebuild these troublesome Holley 2210's with good results?
Do you come across any that are just hopeless?
Jeff
All of those I’ve done have needed recalibrated. Some are really lean and the rest are ultra lean. The ONLY carburetors that are hopeless are ones pitted and corroded so badly that they physically cannot be repaired. Yours definitely does not fall into that category.
I have said it many times on this site that these Holley 2 bbls are notorious for warped air horns and clogged crossover passages. A typical gasket will not fix the leaks that occur due to the warpage and then there are idling and off idle acceleration problems in abundance. CBODY67 has it right.
The only rebuilder that flattens these air horns and planes them afterward is RD Autoline out of Canada. When you send the carb in, put a note in it for them to please implement measures they have in place for these particular models of Holley. The have multiple rebuilders and a huge number of carburetors they rebuild, so some of their technicians may forget the special measures needed to address this problem. Most of the carburetors I get from them are done well but some miss the special measures for the air horn. I then call their tech guy and send them back and ask them to get it right if one of their techs misses the special procedure.
When these carburetors are rebuilt right they perform excellent. I worked in the Chrysler Fuel Systems at Chrysler in the early 70s so I am very familiar with the problem and the field fix bridge kit that was released late in production to keep these carburetors from developing warped air horns from over tightening the wing nuts on the air cleaner. The air horn wasn't robust enough to deal with the upward force and a good design would have had the rod that that secures the air cleaner to the carb with a wing nut attached at the base of the carburetor like most other designs to give it the carb more resistance to warping, not the air horn alone.
The only rebuilder that flattens these air horns and planes them afterward is RD Autoline out of Canada. When you send the carb in, put a note in it for them to please implement measures they have in place for these particular models of Holley. The have multiple rebuilders and a huge number of carburetors they rebuild, so some of their technicians may forget the special measures needed to address this problem. Most of the carburetors I get from them are done well but some miss the special measures for the air horn. I then call their tech guy and send them back and ask them to get it right if one of their techs misses the special procedure.
When these carburetors are rebuilt right they perform excellent. I worked in the Chrysler Fuel Systems at Chrysler in the early 70s so I am very familiar with the problem and the field fix bridge kit that was released late in production to keep these carburetors from developing warped air horns from over tightening the wing nuts on the air cleaner. The air horn wasn't robust enough to deal with the upward force and a good design would have had the rod that that secures the air cleaner to the carb with a wing nut attached at the base of the carburetor like most other designs to give it the carb more resistance to warping, not the air horn alone.
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