1. Samplingman

    Samplingman Senior Member

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    Uncharted territory for me here, first time rebuilding a carb and I’m already stuck. The carb is the Carter AVS 4966S that was on the ‘69 440 motor. It appeared to be in decent shape, but I figured it was worth going through with a new kit. I watched a bunch of videos and searched the forum for tips, but I’m confused as to why the needle and seat assembly is different in the kit then the original I just removed. A search online shows kits with only the new style seat on the right. I’m wondering if this is ok and just a generic part, or is the new one wrong for this carb?

    1732AFD2-D2CA-4BAB-BC22-9E5B0B7982A6.jpeg
     
  2. Snotty

    Snotty Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Everyone I've ever rebuilt, dating back to one from '62, had the seat and valve that is in your kit. I've not seen one like you show on the left. Even the Edelbrocks use the one in the bag.
     
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  3. Samplingman

    Samplingman Senior Member

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    And that’s what I’ve been finding out, but I do have a second carb on the bench that is in really rough shape and it has those same odd seats. I’m thinking it’s better to replace with what’s in the kit then leave the originals.
     
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  4. 68PK21 440.6bbl

    68PK21 440.6bbl Old Man with a Hat

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    I don't think these are originals but a hi-flow inlet seat from a aftermarket rebuild kit.

    AVS.BIG.INLET.SEAT.jpg

    I've seen this type of seat used on many applications, instead of the fuel having to filter past the needle seat it would shoot directly into the bowl for a increase flow(?).
    And also some theory that it would lessen needle hang up which would lead to a higher fuel level and flooding. Someone's 1960's engineering bright idea.

    This is I guess the newer version.

    GHP-Q3410-110-w400.jpg

    Here's another version.

    NS-31-698.jpg

    Quadrajet version

    Jet31-542_31-701.jpg


    Go with what is new in the kit.

    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
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  5. Samplingman

    Samplingman Senior Member

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    Thanks, that’s the kind of information I was looking for and I knew you guys would have the answer.
     
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  6. Samplingman

    Samplingman Senior Member

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    Another question, I have these clips, apparently they clip the needle and float together, but there was nothing in the instruction sheet about them. Do you guys use them? Seems like something that might fall off and eventually and cause bigger problems, but I did see how the needle gets stuck occasionally while I was adjusting the floats.
    CEA1A76D-F56F-4486-8679-972B2CC39134.jpeg
     
  7. 68PK21 440.6bbl

    68PK21 440.6bbl Old Man with a Hat

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    Yes always use the clips.
     
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  8. Samplingman

    Samplingman Senior Member

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    Cool, thanks!
     
  9. Samplingman

    Samplingman Senior Member

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    Here are some before and after pics. It was fairly simple, now it just has to work.

    Before:
    CD727D63-E1EA-41C0-A2D8-D97E14B577B0.jpeg 30FC037C-2D81-4E95-9EDA-5FAB08F08139.jpeg 5CF943F9-F3BD-489C-AC31-23884A50FAE7.jpeg A6963D29-5B7F-45C3-AB79-D465775E4B29.jpeg 2E372D71-C0A2-45D9-86C9-722FAA31385D.jpeg 12EE7904-3A63-4CD4-87E9-5FB32EDC6B61.jpeg
     
  10. Samplingman

    Samplingman Senior Member

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    After:
    7F2CD4AA-EEF9-4E42-8B51-8351093F16E8.jpeg 1783A8A4-B42C-4D1B-AD81-33229A59E7AA.jpeg 6596A5F7-FC83-4D42-AE87-24E181041732.jpeg A88BD2BB-31E3-4FB1-AE12-9AC2D27CDCA4.jpeg B19EF045-EADA-4CD5-B1BB-4A95BCF5CA95.jpeg EC145B18-4AC6-4CBC-BDD9-C81039B50395.jpeg 46C281F8-ABDB-4037-961F-0EEEEFF429F9.jpeg A6063337-BD18-4666-98D7-C74D112C29A2.jpeg
     
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  11. Ripinator

    Ripinator Senior Member

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  12. live4theking

    live4theking Old Man with a Hat

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    That's a considerable improvement.
     
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  13. 68PK21 440.6bbl

    68PK21 440.6bbl Old Man with a Hat

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    Oh boy... I shouldn't get involved in these threads, like trying to chase down electrical problems from a thousand internet miles away. LOL.

    First off who makes this "new kit"?

    Second, what did you use to clean the carb body & parts?
    A Gallon pail of carburetor cleaner which in the old days is just basically 'Lye' or rattle cans of carb spray?
    I wonder if you can still get the 'Lye' type soak stuff anymore.

    Third, is how is the throttle shaft play?
    Tight or loose?

    A good thing is the screw head slots and phillips don't appear to be too buggered up much so this carb may not have been apart too many times (less hands on, less flucked up) which is good.

    The reason I ask is I still see crude (brown staining) in the bottom of the bowls and some white crap on the brass tubes. While this don't seem much to the naked eye with time can dissolve/break off/float away and end up in your check valves and jets.

    The interior of the carb should be pristine shiny clean, the aluminium should be free of any stains and I see some corrosion in areas which is not uncommon but should be scrapped clean or bead blasted glass/walnut your choice but never use sand on aluminium.
    Red arrows to corrosion, green circles stain/crud that can be cleaned with a small wire brush. The metal baffles can be removed. If you got staining and corrosion in these areas what do the narrow passages & tubes look like?

    AVS.BOWL.CRUD.001.jpg

    Little shit can creep out of corrosion over time and get into places you don't want it.
    Check you accelerator pump bores for any corrosion and don't trust your naked eye, get a strong lighted magnifying glass and lightly smooth them by scraping or emery paper.
    If there are serious pits of corrosion in the accelerator bores the carb is must likely junk unless you have access to the ability to hone it or sleeve it.

    Make sure you got the right kit as in your picture is this the right bowl cover gasket?
    Or is it the picture/angle not right (maybe a air gap here).

    AVS.BOWL.GASKET.001.jpg

    In searching around the net for some good Carter documentation I found what this guy says are 1968-71 CARTER AVS 4-Barrel Carburetor NEEDLES & SEATS wGaskets N.O.S (eBay Carter Carter Part No. 42)

    1968-71 CARTER AVS 4-Barrel Carburetor NEEDLES & SEATS wGaskets N.O.S.2.jpg

    Now here's a clean carb (NOS).

    CLEAN.AVS.RR.mvc-4638ds.jpg

    Sorry to rain on your parade but back in the day I had many customers seeking me out to rebuild their carburetors. Never had a come-back either.

    .
     
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  14. Samplingman

    Samplingman Senior Member

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    It’s all good, I’m learning here. Like I said, this is my first time ever doing a carb. Here is the stuff I used to clean the parts. The base did not fit so I poured some on top, but mostly relied on a brush and carb cleaner.

    8AD66A83-9332-443B-A454-59EDF494A5E8.jpeg

    The kit was from Rock auto. I checked a few online but they all seemed to have the same contents. Other than the difference in the aforementioned needle seats, everything else seemed to match what came out of the carb.

    7CEE5D70-A061-40E3-B93C-F0D26168F015.jpeg 71AD5454-2DAA-4120-B7BC-3988604AD499.jpeg

    As for the gasket, they included two. I used the one that matched the old one since one did not have enough holes cut out. The size and edges were the same, so I’m not sure about the short edge. bottom is the original, top is the leftover:

    F8D55463-41C8-47D2-9F9B-388F2F17FA59.jpeg

    I didn’t feel any throttle shaft play, either side to side or up and down. It all seemed to be tight.

    I can tear it down again and try my hand at cleaning the float bowls with the wire brush. I’ll pour the cleaner out into a larger pan and let the base soak over night.

    If this doesn’t work my backup plan is to use the newer Edelbrock on the parts car to get the motor broken in, it’s been pretty reliable so far.

    6E85D010-21A3-4AF8-BCC6-6671A66E5043.jpeg

    I appreciate all the comments, thanks again.
     
  15. 70bigblockdodge

    70bigblockdodge Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    You will be fine the jelly that forms in the bottom of the float bowls from ethanol will keep the stains in place.
     
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  16. 68PK21 440.6bbl

    68PK21 440.6bbl Old Man with a Hat

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    8ad66a83-9332-443b-a454-59edf494a5e8-jpeg.jpg

    This is good stuff but you really need the 5 gallon pail of this to do 4bbl & most large 2bbl carbs. From the looks of the before shots I'd give this carb a good 24hr soak with a 'pull the plugs' to get into all the passages. Maybe a little brushy brushy after eyeballing it pulling it out after the 24hrs soak and a re-soak.
    The kit you got would be referred to as a 'Tune Up Kit' as if your just pulling off the airhorn for a quicky float & valve, gasket replacement. This was done on a lot of the carbs that had the phenolic carb floats, quadrabogs were famous for this.
    A full Carter rebuild kit would have more stuff in it, possibly the passage plugs, some kits did, some didn't. Too bad you couldn't get a 4bbl size pan to get a long soak with just the 1 gallon that you have. (that stuff is nasty to handle).

    Sounds like you did the best you could, but if you have performance issues like poor idle, backfiring through the carb or stumble, I'd shelf the carb and put on a new aftermarket one so you can eliminate one spot of chasing demons down the road.

    Good Luck!
    :thumbsup:

    .
     
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  17. 68PK21 440.6bbl

    68PK21 440.6bbl Old Man with a Hat

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    Oh yea this is handy to have too. I used rifle brushes, torch tip cleaners & wire drills before all these kits were on the market.

    CARB.BRUSH.KIT.jpg

    Very handy for a carb rebuild and only 11 bucks on Amazon.
     
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  18. Samplingman

    Samplingman Senior Member

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    I picked up a large tin pan and was able to soak the carb again over night. I used soaked towels to cover the top and then aluminum foil to seal the whole thing up. I think I made an improvement overall.

    A420061C-E10E-40EC-9EF3-DB2E62032602.jpeg 2330D090-78CE-4823-9153-005E9D8C8CE6.jpeg 27257809-36A7-47D5-8ABE-485E092F83B5.jpeg

    Question, what is the blade connector for? It’s on the scrap carb as well, but I don’t see any obvious electrical connection.

    297E85E4-2BE0-4016-BFA7-89B724A2FE19.jpeg
     
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  19. 68PK21 440.6bbl

    68PK21 440.6bbl Old Man with a Hat

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    That looks a little bit better, see how the brass looks brighter and the steel appears to be more rust free. I've had younger people tell me not to leave the carb and other parts for too long as they thought the dip would dissolve the aluminium. LOL I've used the dip to remove paint, hard carbon off valve stems, etc. leaving parts in the dip sometimes for days.

    That brass connector is for (best I can tell) the Distributor Ground Switch Terminal from the FSM for the 1970 CAS/ECS Carb.

    1970.Distributor Ground Switch Terminal.002.jpg

    Again without doing a bunch of Sherlock Holmes on the carb number, what's the application?
    Car year I take it is 1969, 440 engine... original carb? (I doubt it) Motor Home engine?
    heh you know where I'm going. Could be some other ground terminal for some kind of carburetor solenoid depending on application.

    A blow gun similar to this is handy, I soldered some small (tiny) copper tubing to one of my air chucks so I could bend the tip at almost 90 degrees to get into small bleed holes and passages.

    a3nu3-rs4ky.jpg

    .