Clearance issues - What engine is in my 1970 300 Hurst? See pics.

Northcoast300h

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Anyone know how I can figure out what year 440 I have? Did Chrysler paint orange over blue for the HP440's? Before me, Car was abused, lots of things rigged up, maybe in a wreck since driveline didn't line up (fixed that) but still fixing stuff after a decade.

Steering link was pushing up oil pan, so yesterday I changed tranny mount, added a 1/8 spacer, plus replaced 1 of 2 good engine mounts, thinking that would fix it. Well sort of fixed. Now I have about 1/16" clearance and about 1/2" clearance engine to hood. Will it hit while driving? Is it supposed to be that close? Also about 1/2" clearance from torsion bar. Car sits correctly so I don't know how to fix this. Anyone know of a cheap slender oil pan or will it hit crankshaft? Or instead, should I hammer the current pan in place up about 1/4" or will it interfere with crankshaft? How close are other C bodies? Thanks for any help.
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Big_John

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The VIN should be stamped on the block if it's the original engine.

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If it's not, you can figure out the year by looking at the pad near the water pump. FYI, F=1970, E=69 G=71 etc.

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Davea Lux

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The '70 Hurst had the 375 horse TNT engine standard and it would not have been blue. For '70 it should also be externally balanced with a forged steel crank and the heavy rods. Check the harmonic balancer, if it has a round center, the engine is a 350 horse if the balancer center is oblong, it is externally balanced and 375 horse. As noted, pad next to the distributor should read F 440 HP if it is a '70 engine. The oil pan is "tight" because it is the wrong pan for this application. The correct pan has and angled corner on the passenger side sump to accommodate the steering linkage.

Dave
 
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LocuMob

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The oil pan is "tight" because it is the wrong pan for this application. The correct pan has and angled corner on the passenger side sump to accommodate the steering linkage.
Dave, look at the second picture more closely, it appears to have the diagram indent for the idler arm, and it looks like it is a 699 pan, you can make out one digit right at the center link.
 

Davea Lux

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Dave, look at the second picture more closely, it appears to have the diagram indent for the idler arm, and it looks like it is a 699 pan, you can make out one digit right at the center link.

It could be, a photo of the other side would be helpful, still does not look quite right to me though.

Dave
 

LocuMob

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It could be, a photo of the other side would be helpful, still does not look quite right to me though.

Dave
I think the issue the OP was having, was the top of the link hitting the bottom of the pan at all times, not just turning. That's what i took from it. We shall see.
 

Davea Lux

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I think the issue the OP was having, was the top of the link hitting the bottom of the pan at all times, not just turning. That's what i took from it. We shall see.

If that is the correct pan, then the idler arm may be worn out and popping the linkage against the pan.

Dave
 

3C's & a D?

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That looks like a truck oil pan. The 187/699 pan is not as deep at the back. Where your tape says two inches, it should be closer to one inch. You can see the difference in the picture Big_John posted. How much oil does it take to fill?
 

CBODY67

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There's also a thread or two in here on where the block casting date is located and how to read it. That date code AND the stamp codes should completely identify the particular short block assy, provided it's unmolested internally.

Also verify the stamped part number on the distributor and also the stamp number/tag on the carburetor, too, in tracking the particular engine. If they might match the vehicle, but not the block, then something was changed. IF they don't match the car, then you might better determine what the short block came out of.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
 

Northcoast300h

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Thanks guys! This forum is great. Pan is a 187. I just noticed the front of my pan is about 1/8" from frame crossmember, so I won't be able to use any other pan, correct? Never had any problem steering and never any clunking noises. Linkage is old but still tight, so maybe I'll just weld the hole in existing oil pan and hope for the best? What do you think I should do?

Hey Big John, no VIN on engine that I could find (see pic) and A/C totally covers it up. Carb and Dist were changed by me. I don't have the originals anymore. I guess my engine is more of Turquoise color than blue. Were Winnie 440's Turquoise? If so, does Winnie 440's have different engine mount locations, oil pan, etc? Any other ways to figure out what year I have?

I bought this car on Ebay for $1000 back in 2001. Its just a toy to me, so I don't drive it or work on it very often. For some odd reason, almost all mechanics around Cleveland always come up with a excuse not to fix old cars, so I had to fix about 95% of it myself. Thanks for your help guys!

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Davea Lux

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You paid a cheap price for this car even that long ago. Engine is a 440, casting date looks to be either 1-31-6? or 7-31-6?. If it is 7-31-69 it will be an early '70 engine. What is the production date for the car?

Dave
 

Davea Lux

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Thanks guys! This forum is great. Pan is a 187. I just noticed the front of my pan is about 1/8" from frame crossmember, so I won't be able to use any other pan, correct? Never had any problem steering and never any clunking noises. Linkage is old but still tight, so maybe I'll just weld the hole in existing oil pan and hope for the best? What do you think I should do?

Hey Big John, no VIN on engine that I could find (see pic) and A/C totally covers it up. Carb and Dist were changed by me. I don't have the originals anymore. I guess my engine is more of Turquoise color than blue. Were Winnie 440's Turquoise? If so, does Winnie 440's have different engine mount locations, oil pan, etc? Any other ways to figure out what year I have?

I bought this car on Ebay for $1000 back in 2001. Its just a toy to me, so I don't drive it or work on it very often. For some odd reason, almost all mechanics around Cleveland always come up with a excuse not to fix old cars, so I had to fix about 95% of it myself. Thanks for your help guys!

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That oil pan is pretty beat up and probably should be replaced.. I would be worried that the oil pickup screen is tight against the base of the dented pan. As noted above, your pitman arm could be bent upward from the same impact that trashed the pan. Does the engine show any blue color anyplace except the pan? Someone may have just thrown on a junk yard pan. '69 and later engines should have an engine serial number on the driver side of the block and a VIN number on the passenger side of the block.

Dave
 

3C's & a D?

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Are you sure that Pitman arm isn't BENT upwards???

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I couldn't help think the same seeing the angle of it compared to the center link, should be parallel, it appears angled, possibly from being bent upwards as others have suggested.

I took some photos of my '70 Newport for comparison, it has a 440, with 187 pan. And I was wrong, the pan is two inches, as Northcoast found, his is right. The problem lies elsewhere.

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