And as usual, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Climate change current effects
- Thread starter tbm3fan
- Start date
Carmine
Old Man with a Hat
After reading the article, this time I won't be so long-winded in my response.
I'll try to answer your two questions. I don't know how old you are, but if you've got 20-30 years left, you probably won't experience dramatic personal impacts. Some of your taxes will likely get diverted to dealing with increased storm damage and climate change "adaptation" and maybe increased military spending because of increased migration from areas that are already marginal. Maybe some foods you like will get more expensive. Maybe it will get a little hotter and humid where you live, but maybe not. It may be much worse, but no one knows for sure, and I dont like scare tactics.
It's up to you if you do anything different or not. I think the big misconception is that we're going to have to give up our cars and live in caves. That's not true. I really want an f8 green 2018 Challenger TA. I just did the math. It would emit about 5 metric tons of CO2 per year more than my Honda. You can buy carbon offsets for about $10/ton. Thus, i could pay $50/year for offsets and be even with the Honda on the fuel side of things. Frankly, individual changes are only going to make some people feel good about themselves. It can't be addressed by individuals. I believe in free markets so i think the most efficient solution is to put a tax per ton on CO2 and cut other taxes by the same amount. Then markets can find the best ways to reduce CO2. Unfortunately, the right can't stomach the t word and tbe left wants command and control rules or to use carbon tax receipts for "projects to reduce carbon."
On a personal note, the only thing I would ask you to do different is to not make the climate cycle argument unless you research it more first. The fact that there have always been climate cycles does not mean that climate change caused by humans is not a real thing.
I honestly hope the doubters are right. I've studied it and it's freaking terrifying on a long-term basis. I do have kids so maybe my perspective is different. I've rather enjoyed living high on the hog in 21st century America and want my kids to enjoy it too.
While many in the U.S. are real doubters in the climate scientists' conclusions, much of the rest of the developed world is dealing with it and trusting their scientists. Those countries that develop technologies to deal with it, such as more efficient cars, advanced solar panels, harnessing wind power, advanced batteries and other energy saving efforts will benefit from it in terms of new jobs for their citizens and new markets for their products. Of course, the U.S. can still invest in coal mining as our current leader suggests, but we end up being the ones losing the opportunities and jobs.
When the U.S. decided to deal with smog in the late 60s, all you heard from the automobile companies was that they would go bankrupt putting catalytic converters on cars and performance would be lost and the cars would drive like crap and get terrible mileage. But government kept the pressure on in the U.S. and especially in California, and so the U.S. developed the leading suppliers for the rest of the world for the products that are commonplace on new cars worldwide these days. Companies such as Englehard, Johnson Matthey, Corning, Delphi, and others supplying precious metals prospered and still contribute a great deal to our economy and numerous jobs today. Challenger Demons still are available, cars get amazing mileage, and their driveability is virtually perfect. We listened to the scientists back in those days, and respected their conclusions, to our profit and jobs. And smog even in California is not really an issue any more, and young people look at you with blank stares when you tell them you couldn't even see the mountains less than a mile away during most of the summer back in the 60s and 70s.
Good judgment seems to be gone in the U.S. these days and all we do is bicker and can't talk to each other without fights, our education system is broken, and prosperity seems on the decline except for a few and big banks get away with fraud unharmed. And we are withdrawing from the rest of the world. I'm glad I wasn't born any later than I was. We are too "smart" for our own good and victims of our own success.
I need to go back and read what I said to Jeff, and stick with it!!
When the U.S. decided to deal with smog in the late 60s, all you heard from the automobile companies was that they would go bankrupt putting catalytic converters on cars and performance would be lost and the cars would drive like crap and get terrible mileage. But government kept the pressure on in the U.S. and especially in California, and so the U.S. developed the leading suppliers for the rest of the world for the products that are commonplace on new cars worldwide these days. Companies such as Englehard, Johnson Matthey, Corning, Delphi, and others supplying precious metals prospered and still contribute a great deal to our economy and numerous jobs today. Challenger Demons still are available, cars get amazing mileage, and their driveability is virtually perfect. We listened to the scientists back in those days, and respected their conclusions, to our profit and jobs. And smog even in California is not really an issue any more, and young people look at you with blank stares when you tell them you couldn't even see the mountains less than a mile away during most of the summer back in the 60s and 70s.
Good judgment seems to be gone in the U.S. these days and all we do is bicker and can't talk to each other without fights, our education system is broken, and prosperity seems on the decline except for a few and big banks get away with fraud unharmed. And we are withdrawing from the rest of the world. I'm glad I wasn't born any later than I was. We are too "smart" for our own good and victims of our own success.
I need to go back and read what I said to Jeff, and stick with it!!
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tbm3fan
Old Man with a Hat
So easy to spoof. Actually the article was never for you. Just read the opening sentence where I say "thought provoking." That very clearly eliminates you. In order for one's mind to have a thought provoked it would need to be open minded which you aren't. Those with open minds are always looking to learn new things, ask questions and acquire new knowledge. That describes those who are scientists, for one but not the only ones, as they have the innate curiosity to make them ask questions as to why something is the way it is, observe it, and put forth new knowledge based on what they saw. A scientist never says most of us know better. Even with my five degrees, across different subjects, I have never said I know everything. I constantly look to add to my knowledge and keep an open mind to absorb it.
Yet you have demonstrated many times that you are quite closed minded. You "know everything" in your comment most of us, meaning you, know better. Consequently, your mind is not open to anything new or anything that might contradict your firmly held beliefs. So considering that you know better, and your background in meteorology, I'm sure you could provide a very detailed explanation on how climate is created, how it moves around the world, what moves it among a few things involving climate. You know I too have a case where your total knowledge could provide me with a quicker answer for all involved.
Rapidtrans777
Well-Known Member
I feel like I'm back in Jr. High when we were told by scientists that the world would be out of oil by the 1980's. Man was I bummed. Life's to short to take things so serious.
What I recall was a caveat stating "based on known reserves and current rates of consumption". That is important. And it didn't take a valid "scientist" to make that prediction either. You should have read the fine print.
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Rapidtrans777
Well-Known Member
I was in Jr High. I didn't pay attention to "fine print". My dream car was a '68 Coronet R/T and all I could think about was having nothing but gay sounding George Jetson space cars to drive.
If I had listened to all the times I was told we'd be out of gas and the internal combustion engine was going away... I'd have never had any fun.
Carmine
Old Man with a Hat
From the article:
"People will do what they have done for thousands of years," says Vivek Shandas, a professor of urban studies and planning at Portland State University. "They will migrate to better climates."
It's too bad the internets didn't survive from a million years ago, I would love to see the proposals to end continental drift.
"What are you going to do there?" I asked..."We don't know," McGowan said. "I'm gonna play some guitar and see what comes along."... As they piled back into their Subaru and headed toward the highway,
Ok, I admit cutting/pasting that part only because the hippie-in-a-Subaru stereotype is funny.
In the not-so-distant future, places like Phoenix and Tucson will become so hot that just walking across the street will be a life-threatening event.
Sounds like contemporary Chicago.
"Most people don't realize how much climate affects everything, from their property values to how hard people work,"
So that explains million-dollar shotgun ranches in Compton, CA and $250,000 actual cattle ranches in N. Dakota! Temperate climate and how hard I have to work!? It never occurred to me.
the wealthy, who can afford to adapt, will benefit, while the poor, who will likely be left behind,
I'm learning a lot from Rolling Stone Magazine today. I hope they expalin all the tall people in the NBA next month.
large parts of New Orleans, which was originally built on a swamp, have been sinking for 100 years – some parts of the city have subsided as much as 15 feet. As a result, even ordinary rainstorms are becoming existential threats. Last August, nine inches of rain fell on the city in three hours, and it looked like Katrina all over again. "The city is like a big bathtub,"
I'm sure that just a little more Federal money could turn that around.
It will cost billions of dollars to upgrade the system. But city officials can't even find the money to keep the storm drains and canals free of debris and functioning correctly. At a council meeting after the floods, public-works officials admitted the city could afford to clear only 68 of the 1,300 miles of canals in 2017.
Talk about literally pouring money down a sewer.
At a certain point you have to ask: How long can New Orleans, a city already below sea level, keep pumping?
Yes, I think that's logical. Yet the author seems to lament the idea of large portions of the city remaining uninhabited.
"It's our one asset," she admits. "We are wondering if we should unload it and move away while it's still worth something." In part because she lives in a gentrifying neighborhood, the value of her home has doubled since Katrina. It's worth $500,000 to $600,000 now. "But my worry is, for how long?"
1) Climate change didn't keep you from diversifying your investments.
2) #richpeopleproblems.
"I've loved living in Miami Beach," the poet Chase Twichell wrote recently. "We had a beautiful apartment overlooking the bay, with endless crazy human activity to watch, and astonishing sunsets. But the ecology of the area is so damaged that I can no longer see the beauty. I see impending chaos and suffering. Time to go."
I wonder if you have to disclose that (in rhyme) when you ditch your million-dollar condo on some poor sucker?
Stevens, 29, a slightly manic software programmer, was wearing jeans, a T-shirt and flip-flops as he carried his possessions out to a dusty RAV4...In fact, it was while hiking that his romance with Arizona ended. "I was out on a trail last summer, and it was ridiculously hot, and I had gone too far, and, I don't know, I just collapsed," he said. "I totally fainted. Banged my head on a rock. Scared the hell out of my girlfriend. She gave me water, and I was OK, but it made me think – what am I doing living here?.... The next morning, he would be driving to Minneapolis to move in with his sister and do some freelance coding.
If they do a story about people freezing/falling/having heart attacks while shoveling snow, they need to follow up with this guy.
This region of the Southwest, where humans have lived for more than 10,000 years, is one of the oldest continually inhabited places in the continental U.S. The Anasazi, an ancient Pueblo people, lived in the area for nearly 1,000 years. Then, in the 13th century, they vanished... When I got back to Phoenix the next day, I couldn't help but notice all the for sale signs in suburban yards. President Trump was on the radio, talking about immigration reform, stoking fears of refugees and displaced people... As I drove, I wondered if future humans – or humanlike machines – would interpret the ruins of these shopping malls and car dealerships as 21st-century petroglyphs. What stories, if any, would they tell about the people who had once lived here?
"Hey C3PO, I just found an old human magazine... these dumbasses thought another tax-scheme was going to keep the coastline from changing. Hahaha*beep*hahaha"
And let's not forget the comments section...
Fred C. Dobbs10 hours ago
To say that these hurricanes are a result of climate change is so unethical I can't state the level of dishonesty and frankly evil this demonstrates, That sub headline alone is a disgrace and this writer should be reprimanded and fired, People - please stop falling for this nonsense. There have been hurricanes for many years prior to the human consumption of fossil fuels! And the displacement of people due to hurricanes has nothing at all to do with Climate Change
"People will do what they have done for thousands of years," says Vivek Shandas, a professor of urban studies and planning at Portland State University. "They will migrate to better climates."
It's too bad the internets didn't survive from a million years ago, I would love to see the proposals to end continental drift.
"What are you going to do there?" I asked..."We don't know," McGowan said. "I'm gonna play some guitar and see what comes along."... As they piled back into their Subaru and headed toward the highway,
Ok, I admit cutting/pasting that part only because the hippie-in-a-Subaru stereotype is funny.
In the not-so-distant future, places like Phoenix and Tucson will become so hot that just walking across the street will be a life-threatening event.
Sounds like contemporary Chicago.
"Most people don't realize how much climate affects everything, from their property values to how hard people work,"
So that explains million-dollar shotgun ranches in Compton, CA and $250,000 actual cattle ranches in N. Dakota! Temperate climate and how hard I have to work!? It never occurred to me.
the wealthy, who can afford to adapt, will benefit, while the poor, who will likely be left behind,
I'm learning a lot from Rolling Stone Magazine today. I hope they expalin all the tall people in the NBA next month.
large parts of New Orleans, which was originally built on a swamp, have been sinking for 100 years – some parts of the city have subsided as much as 15 feet. As a result, even ordinary rainstorms are becoming existential threats. Last August, nine inches of rain fell on the city in three hours, and it looked like Katrina all over again. "The city is like a big bathtub,"
I'm sure that just a little more Federal money could turn that around.
It will cost billions of dollars to upgrade the system. But city officials can't even find the money to keep the storm drains and canals free of debris and functioning correctly. At a council meeting after the floods, public-works officials admitted the city could afford to clear only 68 of the 1,300 miles of canals in 2017.
Talk about literally pouring money down a sewer.
At a certain point you have to ask: How long can New Orleans, a city already below sea level, keep pumping?
Yes, I think that's logical. Yet the author seems to lament the idea of large portions of the city remaining uninhabited.
"It's our one asset," she admits. "We are wondering if we should unload it and move away while it's still worth something." In part because she lives in a gentrifying neighborhood, the value of her home has doubled since Katrina. It's worth $500,000 to $600,000 now. "But my worry is, for how long?"
1) Climate change didn't keep you from diversifying your investments.
2) #richpeopleproblems.
"I've loved living in Miami Beach," the poet Chase Twichell wrote recently. "We had a beautiful apartment overlooking the bay, with endless crazy human activity to watch, and astonishing sunsets. But the ecology of the area is so damaged that I can no longer see the beauty. I see impending chaos and suffering. Time to go."
I wonder if you have to disclose that (in rhyme) when you ditch your million-dollar condo on some poor sucker?
Stevens, 29, a slightly manic software programmer, was wearing jeans, a T-shirt and flip-flops as he carried his possessions out to a dusty RAV4...In fact, it was while hiking that his romance with Arizona ended. "I was out on a trail last summer, and it was ridiculously hot, and I had gone too far, and, I don't know, I just collapsed," he said. "I totally fainted. Banged my head on a rock. Scared the hell out of my girlfriend. She gave me water, and I was OK, but it made me think – what am I doing living here?.... The next morning, he would be driving to Minneapolis to move in with his sister and do some freelance coding.
If they do a story about people freezing/falling/having heart attacks while shoveling snow, they need to follow up with this guy.
This region of the Southwest, where humans have lived for more than 10,000 years, is one of the oldest continually inhabited places in the continental U.S. The Anasazi, an ancient Pueblo people, lived in the area for nearly 1,000 years. Then, in the 13th century, they vanished... When I got back to Phoenix the next day, I couldn't help but notice all the for sale signs in suburban yards. President Trump was on the radio, talking about immigration reform, stoking fears of refugees and displaced people... As I drove, I wondered if future humans – or humanlike machines – would interpret the ruins of these shopping malls and car dealerships as 21st-century petroglyphs. What stories, if any, would they tell about the people who had once lived here?
"Hey C3PO, I just found an old human magazine... these dumbasses thought another tax-scheme was going to keep the coastline from changing. Hahaha*beep*hahaha"
And let's not forget the comments section...
Fred C. Dobbs10 hours ago
To say that these hurricanes are a result of climate change is so unethical I can't state the level of dishonesty and frankly evil this demonstrates, That sub headline alone is a disgrace and this writer should be reprimanded and fired, People - please stop falling for this nonsense. There have been hurricanes for many years prior to the human consumption of fossil fuels! And the displacement of people due to hurricanes has nothing at all to do with Climate Change
Without writing a dissertation, I'll just say that I stand by what I said.
Fratzog
Old Man with a Hat
I may accept the theory of how adding greenhouse gases will have some effect on climate however the science is not yet in a good position to accurately predict the rate of temperature increase going forward. This is evidenced by the recent back tracking by UN scientists in a study published in Nature. They conclusively ruled out high climate sensitivities to GHG. Where I have difficulty is that over the last 100 years when temperatures have increased .7*C in part due to solar variations we have incurred no apparent climatic disasters. So even with a greater projected increase over the next century why suddenly are we facing disaster? The Chicken Little reactions remain unimpressive.
Those must have been those radical right wing scientists.
I think there is too much Chicken Little on both sides of this issue. On one side there are apocalyptic predictions of global collapse, and on the other side are scare tactics about how this means we're going to have to give up our cars, live in caves, and cede our freedoms to a liberal global conspiracy.
Here is what I don't understand. When faced with a future problem, the magnitude and timing of which cannot be accurately predicted, but for which there is solid evidence will occur in some magnitude and at some time, and for a problem that will be much harder to fix as time goes by, why not take easy steps now to reduce the threat? It seems like basic risk management to me.
Here in the PNW, we know that magnitude 9 earthquakes occur every 300 years or so and the last one was in 1700. There is a lot of uncertainty when the next one will be and whether it will be 8.6 or 9.2. I can get earthquake insurance pretty cheap so I buy it. Why not the same thing for climate change? The Chicken Littles on the "do nothing" side would have me believe that earthquake insurance is $100,000 a year and just a plot to take away my rights.
Regarding that article, it is the first good news I have seen on this topic for a while, but it is not a justification for not doing anything. If it is the article I know about, they found that we can emit more CO2 than we thought before temperatures increase by more than 1.5 C. It means we have more time for easier fixes. One of the co-authors stated that the findings "revived the objective of keeping maximum warming to 1.5 C—back from being a geophysical and socioeconomic implausibility to it being possible, yet still very challenging."
So how is your earthquake insurance going to lessen the damage of an earthquake?
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ph23vo
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I REALLY HATE WHEN IT CHANGES FROM SUNNY TO RAINY...DANG CLIMATE..
The "scientists" can fix that for you. They just need trillions of dollars, and there is no guarantee that any of it will work, or might even make it worse. After all, it's not like they have ever been wrong in the past.
I'd probably buy it too if I was there... BUT... as an example... my neighbor lost a dozen or so random shingles from his 10+year old roof. The insurance adjustment due to age was $6000 -$5000 deductible... he received a check for $600 and change on a $12k estimate.
Sometimes insurance isn't all you hope it will be.
Catnip My Friend, Here in North Carolina the lending instatutions are holding a gun to your head if you have a mortgage. You WILL carry Wind and Hail damage insurance in addition to regular home owners insurance on your property. JUST WIND AND HAIL INSURANCE AVERAGES 'BOUT $1500 ON A $150,000 TO $200,000 NOTE. What I read here iz that if I need my entire roof replaced once every 10 yearz my insurance company iz still making a profit and the lending instutions are too and IF you don't have a Wind and Hail claim in 15 or 20 years OH WELL, after 5 more yearz it comes out of your pocket for a re-shingle anyway. And it makes no difference that I'm sitting on enough in reserve savings to replace the roof anyway. And if you paid the Mortgage off Uncle Sam will gouge you every April 15th because you have "0" deductions. Don't get me started, Grumble Grumble
Fratzog
Old Man with a Hat
Agreed as long if doing something doesn't mean tanking the economy. There is a lot of progress being made with fuel cell and battery technology to the point within 20 years we could see large reduction in GHG's. This will only happen if countries like China and India are also held to account. We need to better prioritise our science and technology spending. If finding solutions to serious problems here on earth is important why are we planning to spend mega $s on going to the moon or Mars. Lets give fusion energy a boost instead. My .02.
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