Do you or a family member own a 1st gen Saturn Vue?

[bigmoparjeff]

Here's a fairly serious problem that's developing on 2002 to 2007 Saturn Vues driven in areas that use road salt. The body structure where the subframe mounts to the front of the vehicle is rotting away. If you own one, or maybe one of your children is driving one, you definitely want to have it looked at, especially if you live in a state that doesn't require safety inspections. I looked at four of them last week, and they all had the same issue.

This week's other project in the shop was to repair the rust on this '06 model, with less than 85K miles.

The right side mount was no longer attached at all.

Poor design: Low area fills up with dirt and stays damp all the time.

After bolt was removed

Left side looks better, but it is still in bad shape.

Rusty metal cut away

Although still in tact, it's paper thin

The sheet steel I had in stock was a little thicker than the original, hence the ugly-looking weld

Heated it up to form it into shape

Added a drain "bump" at the bottom to help prevent it from rusting again

New box for the mount to bolt to

 

[commando1]

Cripes. The labor for repair must be more than the value of the car.

 

[bigmoparjeff]

Cripes. The labor for repair must be more than the value of the car.

The bill was a little over $1000. He should be able to get another 10 years out of it if he chooses. These days it only goes a few miles to the train station and then back home. Surprisingly, the V-6 Vues have a Honda engine and trans, so that should never be an issue.

 

[cantflip]

The bill was a little over $1000. He should be able to get another 10 years out of it if he chooses. These days it only goes a few miles to the train station and then back home. Surprisingly, the V-6 Vues have a Honda engine and trans, so that should never be an issue.

My sister drives one... purchased from a "buy here pay here". I think she has a 30 year mortgage on the thing a @40% interest. When my brother and I were picking up the payments while she wasn't working, we discussed paying it off for her... she owed about 5x what I considered it's value, so we eventually decided to allow her to continue the lesson in why you don't ignore the 2 mechanics in the immediate family and buy **** you don't understand. She is still very proud of herself that she bought this one "all by herself"

Fortunately, PA safety inspection should take that thing off the road without me being the "jerk". Which is a nice change for me. Her last car, a Hyundai, had transmission problems when she bought it, after several times telling her to get the jiffylube ATF changed out at the dealer, she broke down and spent the $$... shifting issues resolved until the next time jiffylube sold her a maintenance service..., I told her this time she probably killed it, but try the right stuff again... she never did. But continued to ask me about it for the next several years as she drove the car with a screwy transmission and staying off the highways.

 

[1978 NYB]

Damn, that looks extremely dangerous!

 

[C Body Bob]

I was a parts manager for a SATURN dealership 93-99. I went to Nashville several times a year for meetings, plant tours, meet & greets etc. Everything was great those early years as the cars where new. Sold like crazy. The SW2 wagon was in such a short supply (93-5) that a few times we sold them above MSRP ! Very Pro American attitude throughout the entire organization & dealer network. They did a lot of things right. Then about 96 it started comming unglued. Disgruntled techs complaining about all the warranty & good will work. Often saw tow trucks lined up trying to drop off a dead Saturn. Usually a SL1 or SC1. These cars had a timing chain issue that required extensive repair. It was a factory campaign meaning discounted labor & parts often. Over time the veteran techs got good enough at the repair & oil galley repair that they didn't mind working on them. Sales began to pummel. I remember one store manager meeting I went to around 97 the sales department reported sales of only 22 cars for February. My pay was restructured as the dealership was trying to keep its head above water. We added 2 bays. 4 techs, increased service department hours till 7 Pm & added Saturday's. This helped the strain on the shop & the declining sales did as well. In the early days the cars where comming in so fast the techs didn't have time to PDI the cars before they where sold so I would go out & install carpets Mats, radio antennas, center console & I must have pin striped 100 cars. I did all this for free just to help the techs get caught up. The tech who was assigned to PDI the cars that day got paid for all that. By 1999 I could see the end was near. A couple of the meetings I had in Nashville I noticed the Pro American theme was not mentioned as much & talk of rebadging the GM cars as Saturns. My warranty parts where largely being shipped to American based Asian company's. Then about 97 or 98 Us parts managers where tasked with the job of picking up the bumpers from the body shops & destroying them & returning them back to SATURN. I returned dozens each week back to Nashville after I had cut them up. I left in late 99 & my income had dropped about 20-25% largely due to declining sales. I can say the cars did survive crashes better than almost anything it's size on the road. We had pictures on a wall of our customers that had totaled their SATURN & received few injuries. When I first went to work for them they compared the SL2 to the Honda Accord. By 99 it was the SL1 to the Dodge Neon.

 

[commando1]

Thank you Roger Smith for yet another one of your great leadership decisions.

 

[cantflip]

I was a parts manager for a SATURN dealership 93-99. I went to Nashville several times a year for meetings, plant tours, meet & greets etc. Everything was great those early years as the cars where new. Sold like crazy. The SW2 wagon was in such a short supply (93-5) that a few times we sold them above MSRP ! Very Pro American attitude throughout the entire organization & dealer network. They did a lot of things right. Then about 96 it started comming unglued. Disgruntled techs complaining about all the warranty & good will work. Often saw tow trucks lined up trying to drop off a dead Saturn. Usually a SL1 or SC1. These cars had a timing chain issue that required extensive repair. It was a factory campaign meaning discounted labor & parts often. Over time the veteran techs got good enough at the repair & oil galley repair that they didn't mind working on them. Sales began to pummel. I remember one store manager meeting I went to around 97 the sales department reported sales of only 22 cars for February. My pay was restructured as the dealership was trying to keep its head above water. We added 2 bays. 4 techs, increased service department hours till 7 Pm & added Saturday's. This helped the strain on the shop & the declining sales did as well. In the early days the cars where comming in so fast the techs didn't have time to PDI the cars before they where sold so I would go out & install carpets Mats, radio antennas, center console & I must have pin striped 100 cars. I did all this for free just to help the techs get caught up. The tech who was assigned to PDI the cars that day got paid for all that. By 1999 I could see the end was near. A couple of the meetings I had in Nashville I noticed the Pro American theme was not mentioned as much & talk of rebadging the GM cars as Saturns. My warranty parts where largely being shipped to American based Asian company's. Then about 97 or 98 Us parts managers where tasked with the job of picking up the bumpers from the body shops & destroying them & returning them back to SATURN. I returned dozens each week back to Nashville after I had cut them up. I left in late 99 & my income had dropped about 20-25% largely due to declining sales. I can say the cars did survive crashes better than almost anything it's size on the road. We had pictures on a wall of our customers that had totaled their SATURN & received few injuries. When I first went to work for them they compared the SL2 to the Honda Accord. By 99 it was the SL1 to the Dodge Neon.

I work with a number of former Saturn guys... shame that the General couldn't help but screw that one up.

 

[65 500]

I'm glad I don't drive crap.

 

[bigmoparjeff]

Fortunately, PA safety inspection should take that thing off the road

That's exactly what happened here. It got flagged for PA state inspection. He lucked out that I was still waiting for parts to arrive for the transmission for my truck, so I was home and able to do the job. It worked out great for me, because I'm home, therefore not out making money, and I could use the income.

 

[oliver]

Here's a fairly serious problem that's developing on 2002 to 2007 Saturn Vues driven in areas that use road salt. The body structure where the subframe mounts to the front of the vehicle is rotting away. If you own one, or maybe one of your children is driving one, you definitely want to have it looked at, especially if you live in a state that doesn't require safety inspections. I looked at four of them last week, and they all had the same issue.

Terrific job on the repair!!
This week's other project in the shop was to repair the rust on this '06 model, with less than 85K miles.

The right side mount was no longer attached at all.
View attachment 146222

Poor design: Low area fills up with dirt and stays damp all the time.
View attachment 146223

After bolt was removed
View attachment 146224
Left side looks better, but it is still in bad shape.
View attachment 146225
Rusty metal cut away
View attachment 146226
Although still in tact, it's paper thin
View attachment 146227
The sheet steel I had in stock was a little thicker than the original, hence the ugly-looking weld
View attachment 146228
Heated it up to form it into shape
View attachment 146229
Added a drain "bump" at the bottom to help prevent it from rusting again
View attachment 146230
New box for the mount to bolt to
View attachment 146231

 

[bigmoparjeff]

When I first went to work for them they compared the SL2 to the Honda Accord. By 99 it was the SL1 to the Dodge Neon.

Looks like it took six years for reality to set in. Comparing the Saturn to an Accord is just fantasy, unless maybe if it's the previous generation '86-'89 Accord. 2nd gen Saturn vs. 1st gen Neon is much more realistic, with a slight edge going to the Saturn. I've had them all as inventory for a very small used car operation that I was involved in ten years ago. 1990-1993 Accords were my best seller and I really got to know those cars well. I would have been a wealthy man if I could have gotten two or three good ones a week at the auction, but by then most of the ones being traded were beat up and rusty. Neons were a decent bet if you could find them traded in without major collision damage. I passed on many Saturns because the automatic transmissions shifted so poorly that I thought they had trans issues. I ended up buying only ones with sticks. Years later I found out that it was normal for those cars. The Neon and Saturn cars charted similar paths. Both started out with brisk sales and generated a very enthusiastic following, then to later earn bad reputations because of quality control problems, typical of the Big Three automakers.

 

[bigmoparjeff]

Terrific job on the repair!!

Thanks!

 

[65sporty]

Good looking repair, I have a 04 Vue with the Honda 3.5 and we love it. I haven't noticed anything like you have in the pic's but will be sure to look closely next time it's in the air. Thanks for the heads up though.

 

[commando1]

When this was introduced, I knew Saturn was sunk.
Please tell me. WhoTF signed off on the C-piller. Were they that disgusted with top management that nobody cared anymore?

 

[cantflip]

When this was introduced, I knew Saturn was sunk.
Please tell me. WhoTF signed off on the C-piller. Were they that disgusted with top management that nobody cared anymore?


View attachment 146447

I had a 98 SC2 I bought for Viv when we first got together... trade in with a smoked clutch...

I knew a few guy's who loved theirs, but once I got mine running, I found GM had managed to downsize a box truck wide, wide, wide ratio 5 speed for this car... This transmission gear spacing assured the car would never have a sporty driving characteristic.

It was a good enough beater car and reliable... I purposely avoided going into the engine and let it burn through a qt of oil every tank of gas. When I looked into the parts for opening her up I decided it would never be worth it, but Viv did manage to over heat it once or twice and run it out of oil at least once that I know of... the thing kept running. It got banged up a little on I 4 and I sold the car to a young man who drove it throughout his education (almost 2 years)... he learned some hard lessons when he graduated and decided he was ready to open that engine.

I don't think he ever did get it running correctly after his "repairs", I had told him to just pull the plugs and decarbon it with ATF...

 

[bigmoparjeff]

When this was introduced, I knew Saturn was sunk.
Please tell me. WhoTF signed off on the C-piller. Were they that disgusted with top management that nobody cared anymore?

I'll have to agree that's some ugly and lazy design work, though you could kind of hide it with a dark color. I think the real killer was the ridiculous dash layout. Nice job of turning away your core customers in a quest to capture "youth market" buyers.

 

[bigmoparjeff]

I purposely avoided going into the engine and let it burn through a qt of oil every tank of gas.

Between the used car gig and my trucking career, I was mostly doing auto repair in my shop, and had a customer with a '99 SL2 that was thirsty for quart after quart of 20W-50 oil. Eventually, I ended up putting a used engine in it. I took the old one apart just for the heck of it, and it was an elegantly simple design. I think that after Saturn worked out the early bugs, they were good engines when properly maintained. They do have a strange issue where the cylinder walls can wash down with fuel when you are trying to start the car, and you'll loose all compression. They won't restart until you pull the plugs and squirt some oil in the cylinders. I was told that low-tension piston rings are the cause of that.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

The Neon and Saturn cars charted similar paths

Except a first gen Neon handles like a go cart, which is loads of fun period.
We all know what the general's idea of a ridged chassis is. Yuk, vomit, blah.

 

[cantflip]

Between the used car gig and my trucking career, I was mostly doing auto repair in my shop, and had a customer with a '99 SL2 that was thirsty for quart after quart of 20W-50 oil. Eventually, I ended up putting a used engine in it. I took the old one apart just for the heck of it, and it was an elegantly simple design. I think that after Saturn worked out the early bugs, they were good engines when properly maintained. They do have a strange issue where the cylinder walls can wash down with fuel when you are trying to start the car, and you'll loose all compression. They won't restart until you pull the plugs and squirt some oil in the cylinders. I was told that low-tension piston rings are the cause of that.

Yep, the washed cylinder problem affects many cars. The habitual offenders may damage bores or pistons with their coatings to prevent wear... serious oil consumption is the typical result.