Drum heat from too tight axle play??

[Zymurgy]

I hate to start another thread on this, but I already have my comments of my problems in too many threads.

I still have heat in my rear right drum, which causes a vibration on long drives, as the temperature rises.

A short back history: changed rear axle bearings last fall couldn't adjust my axle play, too loose. Jump to this summer, realized my brake shoes were reversed on the right rear. I corrected that problem. At the same time I realized I could now adjust my axle play. I did not actually check the gap just backed the ring off a 1/4 turn from a tight position.

Jump to today, my situation is definitely better, but still getting hot especially on a rough road.

Did I possibly change one source of the heat for another? First from the reversed shoes and now possibly from too tight of my axle play?

 

[dart4forte]

I hate to start another thread on this, but I already have my comments of my problems in too many threads.

I still have heat in my rear right drum, which causes a vibration on long drives, as the temperature rises.

A short back history: changed rear axle bearings last fall couldn't adjust my axle play, too loose. Jump to this summer, realized my brake shoes were reversed on the right rear. I corrected that problem. At the same time I realized I could now adjust my axle play. I did not actually check the gap just backed the ring off a 1/4 turn from a tight position.

Jump to today my situation is definitely better, but still getting hot especially on a rough road.

Did I possibly change one source of the heat for another? First from the reversed shoes and now possibly from too tight of my axle play?

Define the heat. Are you running steel wheels? When you take for a drive do you get out and put your hand on the center of the wheel, too hot to the touch?

If it’s truly getting hot you are cooking those wheel bearings

 

[twostick]

Back the brake adjuster off on that wheel until it spins free and go for a drive and see if it still heats up. If it still heats up, jack that wheel up and see if it still spins free. If it does, the axle is probably the culprit. If not then something is causing that wheel cylinder to hang.

IIRC the axle end play spec is between .004" and .010". Basically if you push and pull on the wheel end and it clunks in and out = too much end play. If you can't feel any movement = not enough end play. If you think you feel some but not sure, repeat several times. .010 you can feel the bearing bottom out but really can't see the axle move so you have to develop a feel for it. You need to have the drum off and pull directly on the axle flange so you can feel it. Depending on your sense of "feel" that slight movement that you have to concentrate to notice will usually be right on if you checked it with a dial indicator. Make sure you have both wheels in the air and smack the end of the driver's side axle with a dead blow hammer to take all the play out of the whole assembly and then check it from the passenger side if you need to adjust it.

Kevin

 

[twostick]

Silly question but you did pack the new wheel bearings with grease, correct?

Kevin

 

[Zymurgy]

Define the heat. Are you running steel wheels? When you take for a drive do you get out and put your hand on the center of the wheel, too hot to the touch?

If it’s truly getting hot you are cooking those wheel bearings

I am using an infrared thermometer it seem to get to 145° on a longer drive left side is always near 105°. If I drive long enough usually 20 miles on rough roads I get the vibration.

 

[Zymurgy]

Silly question but you did pack the new wheel bearings with grease, correct?

Kevin

Yes and my grandfather taught me so I at least know I did that right.

Thanks for the details I probably have it a little stung. I couldn't feel any perceived movement but I could spin the tire freely.

It is at least another place to start. I will only make one change at a time now.

 

[rkrochen]

I am using an infrared thermometer it seem to get to 145° on a longer drive left side is always near 105°. If I drive long enough usually 20 miles on rough roads I get the vibration.

As mentioned in the previous thread the temp is not out of norm as measured by a couple of us. Different wheel temps are likely an indication of different adjustments on the wheels. Brakes generate friction which creates heat any time you use them. Don’t overthink this.
The vibration is a concern. When you have vibration does it stop when you start applying the brakes?

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

Again, use the shop manual axle bearing setup procedure as a starting point.

 

[Davea Lux]

145F is a normal temp range. You had the shoes on backwards, once you are satisfied that the axle end play is correct, try changing the shoes. You shoes may have glazed from incorrect installation and that could be what is causing the vibration. A failing bearing will be noisey and seldom generate enough heat to overheat the brakes.

Dave

 

[Zymurgy]

As mentioned in the previous thread the temp is not out of norm as measured by a couple of us. Different wheel temps are likely an indication of different adjustments on the wheels. Brakes generate friction which creates heat any time you use them. Don’t overthink this.
The vibration is a concern. When you have vibration does it stop when you start applying the brakes?

Actually it gets worse when I brake, almost like a warped rotor, if I actually stop and get out of the car it is better. If I just slow down the vibration will continue.

I swear I was checking the front brakes when checking the rear. Yesterday after driving on a rough road my front right brake was 350°, that has to been the problem, since 145° isn't out of the norm for you guy. I may have been so focused on the back it was my front brakes.

If that is the case I do have a new master even though this one is only 2 years old.

 

[Zymurgy]

Additional information. When I was sorting out the front discs, I overheated them to smoking the brakes, several times. I discovered I needed spacers between the master and booster because I was basically riding the brakes.

After that, because I managed to do everything else wrong, one of the bolt from my front caliper fell out. When I braked it came to a violent stop. This caused my master to leak fluid on to the floor of my car. It has not leaked again.

I also have a new caliper which I never changed out, once I discovered the missing bolt.

 

[Zymurgy]

145F is a normal temp range. You had the shoes on backwards, once you are satisfied that the axle end play is correct, try changing the shoes. You shoes may have glazed from incorrect installation and that could be what is causing the vibration. A failing bearing will be noisey and seldom generate enough heat to overheat the brakes.

Dave

I did change everything out with new shoes, it definitely seems better, but definitely doesn't like a rough road. I drove home yesterday after my initial vibration issue, 25 miles on smooth roads with no vibration and acceptable heat.

 

[Davea Lux]

It should not be possible to leak brake fluid on the floor of your car as the booster is between the master and the firewall connection. Most of the time, a tight pedal can be corrected by adjusting the travel rod that comes out of the brake booster to the MC. There is usually an adjusting screw on the end of the rod to lengthen or shorten the rod until the desired pedal free play is achieved. If you went to an aftermarket brake booster as part of the conversion to disc brakes, and they suggest adding spacers, that is what you needed to do. If you have a stock disc brake booster you should not need spacers. It is also possible that one or both front rotors warped as a result of being overheated from the dragging brakes. You would need to take them off and have a machine shop test the rotors for run out. Also check the rotor assemblies to be sure that the bearings are properly adjusted as loose bearings can cause some of the issues you describe.

Dave

 

[rkrochen]

Additional information. When I was sorting out the front discs, I overheated them to smoking the brakes, several times. I discovered I needed spacers between the master and booster because I was basically riding the brakes.

After that, because I managed to do everything else wrong, one of the bolt from my front caliper fell out. When I braked it came to a violent stop. This caused my master to leak fluid on to the floor of my car. It has not leaked again.

I also have a new caliper which I never changed out, once I discovered the missing bolt.

Do you have power brakes. If so not sure how you would dump fluid on the floor. Regardless the MC should be replaced or rebuilt.

 

[rkrochen]

On the conversion what master cylinder did you install? It has to be designed for front disc rear drum setup.

 

[Zymurgy]

On the conversion what master cylinder did you install? It has to be designed for front disc rear drum setup.

Yes, I installed the correct disc brake master and rebuilt factory dual diaphragm booster. The master definitely seems like the place to start.

I never changed it, because it never lost any more fluid and the brake pedal feels right.

 

[stubs300]

Throwin stone here! Do you use your parking brake at all? Have you looked at that at all? Could one side of the cable be a little tighter then the other, rust causing a little hang up, etc.? Maybe it needs some attention or other? I'm not there to look at it to get a answer! Good Luck

 

[Zymurgy]

I totally disconnected the parking brak to remove it from possibly. I was certain that was it this spring.

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

Os it the original drum that got overheated? If so, the drum could possibly have developed hot spots, which drag every time the whell rotates, adding yo temps, and feels like a vibration when braking.

 

[Zymurgy]

Os it the original drum that got overheated? If so, the drum could possibly have developed hot spots, which drag every time the whell rotates, adding yo temps, and feels like a vibration when braking.

Thanks Ross. I had them turned originally but did not when I just replaced the shoes. I will pulled them off and have them turned again. I did notice the old shoes wore oddly, but I figured putting them on backwards had something to do with that.