Electric fan recommendations?

Knebel

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Hello,

I am running a 360 with and EFI system that runs timing control too. I have a spal 2000cfm fan and Never really had a temp issue. I added an AC last winter and today was my first real day using it in 95° weater. No temp creep or heating up while driving, stays close to 200° but when I sit on traffic or a parkinglot and the ac is going and the fan is running, the temp was creeping up to 220°. Not very fast but at a rate that it concerns me. I have a 2 row aluminium radiator with I believe 1.5" rows.

The fan I have is pretty slim so it wont interfere with the waterpump... however, whats causing the temp to creep up like tha?? And does anyone know a slimline fan that pulls more cfm?
 
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Hello,

I am running a 360 with and EFI system that runs timing control too. I have a spal 2000cfm fan and Never really had a temp issue. I added an AC last winter and today was my first real day using it in 95° weater. No temp creep or heating up while driving, stays close to 200° but when I sit on traffic or a parkinglot and the ac is going and the fan is running, the temp was creeping up to 220°. Not very fast but at a rate that it concerns me. I have a 2 row aluminium radiator with I believe 1.5" rows.

The fan I have is pretty slim so it wont interfere with the waterpump... however, whats causing the temp to creep up like tha?? And does anyone know a slimline fan that pulls more cfm?
I have a GTO, 389, and Pontiac's are known to run warm. Like you, I installed an aluminum radiator and installed dual fans which together move 3,900 CFM. I have the fans set to kick in at 185 degrees. There have been times that my temp. will get to 190-195 when setting in traffic but I am in Phoenix running the air when it is 110 degrees plus. I put in the 3900 based upon "expert advice." Not that I am an expert but based upon what I was told, your 2,000 CFM might be light. I am currently restoring my 65 SF, 383, and putting in an aluminum radiator and am going to also install the dual fans that push the 3,900 - 4,000; just to be safe. I am also going with a serpentine belt that has the a/c compressor, power steering, water pump and alternator on it and have a whole 1" left over after installation of the fans! Knock on wood! With regard to a slim fan, you should measure how much space you have and then call a Summit or Jegs. In my case, if I didn't have the 1" leeway, I was told I could change out the water pump???
 
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Let me suggest a couple things:

1. Having installed an FFD16-3600CFM ( https://ffdynamics.com/products/ols/products/ffd16-3600cfm ) this past May as a pusher, upgrading from an A-Team Performance 16 incher fan nominally rated at 3000 CFM , I achieved "airflow saturation" on our 68 ragtop Newport w a 383 2 bbl carb, 22" Hi Alt radiator and 180 F thermostat. I drive in Tucson, and know something of how B/RB MoPAR engines heat up in summer urban traffic. This summer, Gertrude hasn't gone over ~205F. I use a 7 blade 18" MoPar clutch fan on the original clutch behind the radiator. The FFD fan has an 80 amp chinesium relay as its first line of overcurrent protection. I use a 40 amp breaker upline from that at the battery.

2. Maximum engine cooling now occurs when running a fast idle between 1000-1200 rpm. WHY? COOLANT FLOW! I found that the stock w AC coolant pump barely moved my 50% glycol coolant soln at curb idle (600 rpm) and that temperature would creep up, regardless of how much wind blasted the radiator and engine compartment. So, I replaced that Gates pump with a good old NON-AC Mopar pump, and things improved nicely. I suggest you attend to coolant flow, as it appears you've done all the other "right stuff" to cool your engine. I'm pondering whether to go with a good electric pump or the Flowcooler mech pump. Since we use Gertrude over 95% of the time in town, I'm leaning toward Meziere, but there are several good looking contenders which bolt into the old pump housing worth a look also. IDK if they're worth more than that yet.

Be that as it may, decoupling coolant flow from engine speed looks like the best thing for city driving. On the highway, it has been demonstrated otherwise in many cases. WHERE you go and how quickly must be considered now.

BUT, IFF you still seek good wind for your rods, the A-Team fans are the best buy for the $, but the FFD is the best single blaster I've tried to date.

Cruise cool Moparians!
 
Very good! I am curious how the cfm is rated. I know flex-a-lite rates it in free air and spal actually uses a restriction. Thats why i have the spal hi perf. Fan that pulls real 2000cfm. But that fan might be something ill upgrade to. I have played with the idea of an electrical waterpump but not sure about reliability of those!
 
Very good! I am curious how the cfm is rated. I know flex-a-lite rates it in free air and spal actually uses a restriction. Thats why i have the spal hi perf. Fan that pulls real 2000cfm. But that fan might be something ill upgrade to. I have played with the idea of an electrical waterpump but not sure about reliability of those!

I suspect most of these fans get rated by open, unrestricted volume flow, but IDK. That FFD3600 sure as **** blasts quite a lot through that old radiator, as the entire engine compartment cools down from using it. They design their fans primarily as PULLERS too, so, that might be a good choice for your upgrade if you seek to push or pull more air past the radiator. I have a temperature switch set to kick it on at 210 F and a toggle switch if I want to use it for any other reason. I normally kick it on if stalling in traffic. The mech fan does decent when moving, so I save the pusher then.

A fair number of folks on this Forum use electric pumps, and give good account of them from what I've seen. They have good and bad sides to them.

The GOOD side is one can run it at a nice flow rate regardless of what the engine turns, which, in the summer, in southern AZ urban traffic is a HUGE benefit.

Also, one can run the pump even when parked, thus mitigating "heat soak." This too is a major benefit from electric coolant pumps.

The down side is that at other times, one flow rate doesn't serve to cool an engine properly. While the constant flow rate from the vast majority of electric pumps cools well in slow driving situations, it may NOT do if running the engine hard and fast on a hot interstate! In this situation, mech pumps still deliver better flow rate, usually, so should be preferred, IFF this sort of driving predominates with your ride.

We might well go with all electric cooling with the new motor next Spring, Deo volente. I didn't put the old mech salad chopper onto the water pump until mid April this year. The A Team fan did pretty well for cooling up to that point this past winter and early spring. This bodes well for all electric, given proper stuff.
 
I havnt used one myself but the fans from 87-93 (I think) ford tauras/sable with 3.8 v6 have a big following. a quick search with get lots of hits. Although new they are not much cheaper than the one recommended
 
Yes, the fans from late 80s Ford/Mercury midsize cars get good press, but I'll stick with A Team Performance for a budget fan. I might even take the one I used this past winter and put it on my /6 powered Dodge D150 as a supplement, though it doesn't seem to need such. By '83, they were setting those up to run a little hotter.
 
Just got the "3600cfm" FFD. I am majorly disappointed, that thing sucks less air than my 2000cfm spal and with the AC on shoots my temp to BOIL in a matter of minutes. 240+!!!
It wont even cool it down without the ac on... what a joke!
 
Just got the "3600cfm" FFD. I am majorly disappointed, that thing sucks less air than my 2000cfm spal and with the AC on shoots my temp to BOIL in a matter of minutes. 240+!!!
It wont even cool it down without the ac on... what a joke!
Send it back to them and demand a refund. Mine does very well, but by all means, raise Hell with them over this. They want too much $ for those things for any shoddy performance.
 
No returns if installed or wired up. Thats great to not have to take back their garbage. But i did email them about my disappointment. Right away I wondered if the fan was even running!?.... just putting my hand behind it and onfront of the radiator I'd say its maybe half of the spals power.

The spal was almost 200$ and performed 1st class until i put an AC condenser infront and the heat here hit 90°! Without the AC running I could drive all day and the spal had no problem cycling on and off.
 
Maybe I should just run it as a pusher that comes on with the AC and have a flex fan on the pulley.

Edit: another possibility, does an AC car have a smaller pulley on the waterpump? Maybe that would be an option to explore for me...
 
Maybe I should just run it as a pusher that comes on with the AC and have a flex fan on the pulley.

Edit: another possibility, does an AC car have a smaller pulley on the waterpump? Maybe that would be an option to explore for me...

Yes, an AC equipped car has an AC pump and AC pulley, which I suspect IS smaller than non AC setups. I use my FFD3600 as a pusher, at which the damn thing does dandy, and I have no AC, so I suspect I've got an optimal setup for their product. Mine really does push lots of air through that old radiator, cooling it quick, but I'm not surprised by your blues thus far bro, and I won't be buying another one. The trick I've found is in the coolant pump, MORE than whether blasting lots of air by the radiator or not. The cheap A-Team Performance fan did a decent job with my rides for 4 years, and still can, but I tried FFD and yes, its better, but not 2.4x better, which was the price hike.

I wish I knew more about AC setups, but I avoid them altogether. I say, use the FFD as a pusher to get the most out of the thing, and optimize your cooling system for AC otherwise. You're using an AC grade coolant pump, right? I got better results when I ditched mine, but that's likely because I don't have AC.\

I also still run an 18", 7 blade Mopar mech salad chopper in front of that water pump. thermally clutched. The pusher fans ALWAYS have been to supplement mech fans. I had a nice shroud I built all of angle aluminum last summer, and it helped w the old 6 blade Derale fan and the A Team pusher. The FFD renders the shroud somewhat superfluous, which is well, given how it got nuked last September by an either careless, or criminal driver. I've attained "wind saturation" with this setup, and my next step will be increasing the coolant flow. Whether electrically, via Meziere, or Flowkooler, I've yet to decide. That will be next summer. I still haven't gone over ~209F this summer, and that only when backing into the driveway. When rolling forward, this motor stays under 200F.
 
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I think I will be using the fan as a pusher and have a mechanical Fan. I can just set my EFI system to turn the e fan on at whatever temp I desire (like 210on 200off for supplement) and it will turn on simultaniously to the AC compressor.

I have no idea what pump or pulley is on the engine. Its a parts mix Match from 2 owners ago or whoever did the engine swap lol
 
I think I will be using the fan as a pusher and have a mechanical Fan. I can just set my EFI system to turn the e fan on at whatever temp I desire (like 210on 200off for supplement) and it will turn on simultaniously to the AC compressor.

I have no idea what pump or pulley is on the engine. Its a parts mix Match from 2 owners ago or whoever did the engine swap lol

I say you have a good plan now bro! I ran from December to mid May w just an A Team Performance "3000cfm" fan pushing on my trusty, ancient Mopar 2524984 radiator, and that did just SWELL, until mid May. I then put the FFD AND the salad chopper on, and upgraded the pump from the cheap Gates w AC pump to a well rebuilt (by Carter, early 1970s) non-AC Mopar pump. Measure your fan/pump pulley, and shop for a GOOD mech pump and 18" clutch fan to put behind your radiator, and let the FFD BLOW instead of SUCK. FFD asserts that their product is meant to be a sucker, but w the caveat of using their custom shrouds. Shrouds were FINE, 50 yrs ago, but are EXPENSIVE. Pusher fans, controlled by modern electronics, do a better job for less, even over-priced pushers.

I set my FFD pusher w a 210F switch right in the pump, AND a big old fashioned toggle switch, in case I want the fan BEFORE the coolant gets up to 210F. I usually do, switching on if in heavy traffic and when the engine gets over 200F. I flick it OFF once moving well, most of the time.

I can't give you any good ideas about pumps beyond saying "avoid chinesium." Nearly ALL the Wise Elders here will tell you that a slower moving coolant medium does better with an AC setup. I note that on MINE, happily AC-free, a brisk coolant flow cools BETTER, at least at present. Be mindful that a smaller pump/fan pulley will turn that pump faster, given the ratio with the crank pulley. I probably will try a smaller pulley I have off my 400 this Fall, just to see what comes of it. If noteworthy, I'll post then.

Stay chill, and good luck with that.
 
How funny...I got a derale 17" high performance mech. Fan installed and it does nothing. Quickly goes to 250° idling with ac on. I think I will work on making a better shroud for my electric fan. Then do a flokooler waterpump ...
 
I think the old junkyard Mopar 7 blade 18" fan does better than the DeRale predecessor I used, no doubt of it. You remind me of why I refuse to put an AC on any vehicle I drive in this blast furnace. I've done without them for 43 summers in the Sunny Southwest now.

One thing I've learned with THIS GOOD old 383, which I salvaged from the wreck last summer, is how to keep that one running under 210F. Having a GOOD radiator also is VERY important in this scheme. I've found this old Mopar 2524984 to be better than anything else I've run it with, though the Mop753A from Speedccooling is a close second. Still, if I have the extra dollars next year, I think I'm opting for a USA Radiator build, and a re-core of this 1965 radiator. Copper radiators DO shed heat more efficiently IFF well designed. Bang for buck wise, I prefer good aluminum builds.

These high temperatures you're describing suggest that you MIGHT have more amiss than just the cooling system. I found out about THAT **** last Fall, when I ran a cracked motor from October through December. I tried EVERYTHING to COOL that motor, and when I succeeded in THAT, then the crack worsened, to the point I finally lost oil pressure, and the coolant got into the crankcase. If your motor keeps hitting high temps after some more cooling enhancements, then DO, check the cooling jacket itself. A head gasket leak might account for some overheating.
 
I gotta clarify. I have NO heat issues when the AC is NOT on.
Everything cools fine going down the road and I ran the spal fan for years no problem. The spal would actually cool it down from 195 to 185°.. Added AC last year because it gets too hot and humid and its annoying when you have to peel your butt off the sweat soaked vinyl lol. Anyway, discovered that the spal fan is just not enough for the extra heat from the condenser so I thought great...an extra 1600cfm from the FFD should do it. Honestly... that FFD is not pulling 3600cfm. Not at only 20amps. My spal pulled 60!!!

Anyway, with no AC on and the FFD running, i can keep it at 195° but the fan wont cool it down, so my conclusion is that the FFD is WEAK AF! I think a high flow AC waterpump might give me the edge I need on this, probably a good idea to replace the pump anyway...unknown age and mileage
 
I concur totally with your assessments, now that I'm sure of your situation. So, the SPAL pulled 60A eh? Well, that makes for 3x the power that 250W motor on the FFD is rated for, more or less 1 HP then. That's a fair bit of electric motor load, to be sure. Well, for $200, that's no surprise either, save I suspect now they'll want more for their product.

I suspect these fan makers often rate the volume flux of their wares in an open, unloaded configuration, which is truly absurd insofar as cooling engines goes. Yes, by all means go for the Flowkooler pump! That's my most likely next step. I'm happy with the setup I have mind you, and know that an AC dumps a LOT of heat, since that's its job after all. Pity the radiator picks that up usually, with the condenser being in front of it.

Yes, vinyl certainly tortures one in heat. When you added the AC, you got a modern setup with the Sanden compressor and modern condenser, right? R134 isn't so great as R12, but of course, we have little choice, unless we want to pay a stiff premium for a few #s of the old stuff. I suspect the system cools marvelously well, with all the heat its dumping. Aside from the pump, I suspect all the option you really have is to go with a bigger radiator, which may also get prohibitively pricey. I pray the Flowkooler does the trick for you.
 
Just gonna throw this out there but wouldn't an A/C car come equipped with a different pulley, different water pump, different fan AND a different radiator, compared to a non A/C car?

Maybe you're trying to fix an airflow issue when it's actually a cooling capacity issue?
 
The year is 2022 not 1970
210 is not hot
220 is warm but nothing to get all wound up about
There are good ways to mitigate the heat without rocket scince

Normal operating temps for today's fuel is 195-210 - this not the old wive's tail read on here almost every day, but real information from using modern instrumentation to tune these carburetor beasts. Today's fuel requires these temps to atomize properly. Under hood temperatures are the real problem esp after a heat soak.
Pay attention for once
The thermostat controls the MINIMUM operating temp.
Many times the lower temp thermostat makes the temp problem worse.

OP what is the temp at the base of the carb when the car is shut off at 210 and how high does it climb in the 10 minutes after it is shut off?
What is in the coolant?
60% water 40% coolant and a bottle of coolant additive
What are the temps
across the radiator?
at the the thermostat?
exhaust manifolds
What radiator cap? There is loaded question - there is only one good answer
What is the correct cap?
Coolant recovery bottle?
 
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