Engine conversion help!

Vinsanity

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I have a 1967 fury III and is already has the 318 5.2 v8. I was looking to upgrade the engine.
383
440
454? And if so would it mesh with the 727 torquelite transmission?
 
I have a 1967 fury III and is already has the 318 5.2 v8. I was looking to upgrade the engine.
383
440
454? And if so would it mesh with the 727 torquelite transmission?

Big block Mopars use the A-727 torque flight transmission. Most Mopar small blocks use the A-904 transmission. These transmissions do not interchange. If you are going to put a 383, 400 or 440 big block into a small block 318 application, you will need to have the heavier A-727 transmission. The chev 454 is not compatible with the A-727, the bolt patterns are not even close. There is also no good reason to put that chev engine in a Mopar as the 440 is a much stronger and more reliable engine.

The other area of concern will be that with the higher horsepower engines, you will need to upgrade the braking system to be able to stop the darn thing. Ideally you would want to convert to disc brakes on the front or at least the heavier drum brakes and backing plates on both front and rear. That is a big job. The 383/440 cars generally also have heavier front torsion bars and rear springs as well.

Dave
 
454 if probably a stroker 383 or 400, NOT a Chevy 454.

It would be easier to consider a stroker 360 LA motor, which is the same architecture/size as your existing 318 LA motor. IF your car has a 727 TF already, so much the better.

Rear axle might need to be upgraded, as well as the brakes, too.

CBODY67
 
If the 454 is a stroker mopar engine, it will work with the A-727 transmission. As Willis has noted, the rear end might need to be changed also, the 8.75 third member rear end is adeguate for big block mopars, the 7.25" type used with many small blocks is not. If the rear end has a rear cover, it is most likely a 7.25" rear and will likely break under full throttle application.

Dave
 
Just so we are clear, there is a small block 727 as well as a big block 727. The only difference is the bell housing.

To answer your question, the transmission in your car now will not fit a 383/440.

Kevin
 
As I recall, a 400 with a cut-down-main bearing size 440 crank makes 452cid. With a bit of a normal overbore, might be 454. A B engine, which would need a B/RB 727 and the 8.75" rear axle and wider 11" brakes. Many 318s did not have the optional-on-a-318-car front sway bar, which came standard with the 383/440 cars. If it doesn't have one, it would need one!

The more common stroker 360s make about 408cid. Bolt-in for a 318 LA replacement, but would need a LA 727 and the same rear axle/suspension upgrades as noted above.

CBODY67
 
There will be no 454 going into this car. You can slice it, dice it, and chop all you want six days from Sunday... no 454 is going in.
 
There will be no 454 going into this car. You can slice it, dice it, and chop all you want six days from Sunday... no 454 is going in.

Who's "The Enforcer"? The last Green Hornet movie had the modified Imperial in it, but unlike the original movie, the latter car had a big block Chevy crate motor in it. All if takes is some fab, a gas wrench, and some other incidentals. I didn't think too much of it, but somebody else paid for it.

CBODY67
 
I'm not talking what has been done and could be done. I can say with 1,000% certainty that a 454 is not going into that car.
 
I´m with Stan in this case. A Chebbie engine will ruin a Mopar!
 
I think what Stan was saying is that If this sort of question is being asked then maybe the op should stick with the 318 for a while and learn some Mopar basics before dealing a deathblow to a potentially nice car...
 
The possible dynamics I see in the OP's question are very innocent, seeking advice to possibly verify what some of the OP's friends/associates (who seem to know about cars) have suggested. Which can be problematic as I also suspect there might be a knowledge gap between them and those of us in here.

The many issues mentioned above (heavier torsion bars, trans, rear axle, brakes, etc.) weren't involved in the OP's received suggestions. Just putting something in there that's more powerful than what's already there. No more, no less. A reasonable response from some early "car people", I suspect. BTAIM

In the 1950s-era world of "hot rodding", it was somewhat common to source engines from a local/regional salvage yard. If you needed an engine right then, you went there and dealt with what they had. Or if you had some time, you shopped other yards. IF you were adventurous and had some basic mechanical skills (especially welding), many different engines could end up in places they didn't come in. I remember an old JCWhitney catalog and all of the (Ansen?) bellhousings to adapt every engine to a vehicle's existing manual transmission. The sky seemed to be the limit as to what was physically possible to be done. NOT respective of if it would make a vehicle that was really safe to drive, but if it moved and laid rubber, that was an improvement. So we can't dismiss that history, which tended to decrease a good bit as more vehicles came with larger factory-optional engines.

In more modern times, many perceive that all vehicles are generic and all related engines are similarly generic. Everything fits in everything else, in effect. WE know it's not that way at all. Hopefully, the OP can research and discover that things are not nearly as simple as many might suspect in any major vehicle possible modifications. It all looks so simple and quick on TV, but it's not nearly like that in real life.

Finding good mentors is always important. Only thing is that it can take some time to get to the "good/better/best" group. On the surface, one group can look as good as the next, unfortunately. I've seen that happen several times, even being a part of that situation in seeking credible/reliable information on other brands of vehicles, expanding my knowledges in the process. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen overnight!

@Vinsanity, welcome to one of the best knowledge bases on Chrysler Corp C-body (and some other platforms) on the net. A diverse group, to say the least. Hang around, look, watch, and learn. It can become a little addictive, too! Ask questions as desired as that's how learning can happen. It CAN be a big learning curve, but worth it.

Enjoy!
CBODY67
 
The possible dynamics I see in the OP's question are very innocent, seeking advice to possibly verify what some of the OP's friends/associates (who seem to know about cars) have suggested. Which can be problematic as I also suspect there might be a knowledge gap between them and those of us in here.

The many issues mentioned above (heavier torsion bars, trans, rear axle, brakes, etc.) weren't involved in the OP's received suggestions. Just putting something in there that's more powerful than what's already there. No more, no less. A reasonable response from some early "car people", I suspect. BTAIM

In the 1950s-era world of "hot rodding", it was somewhat common to source engines from a local/regional salvage yard. If you needed an engine right then, you went there and dealt with what they had. Or if you had some time, you shopped other yards. IF you were adventurous and had some basic mechanical skills (especially welding), many different engines could end up in places they didn't come in. I remember an old JCWhitney catalog and all of the (Ansen?) bellhousings to adapt every engine to a vehicle's existing manual transmission. The sky seemed to be the limit as to what was physically possible to be done. NOT respective of if it would make a vehicle that was really safe to drive, but if it moved and laid rubber, that was an improvement. So we can't dismiss that history, which tended to decrease a good bit as more vehicles came with larger factory-optional engines.

In more modern times, many perceive that all vehicles are generic and all related engines are similarly generic. Everything fits in everything else, in effect. WE know it's not that way at all. Hopefully, the OP can research and discover that things are not nearly as simple as many might suspect in any major vehicle possible modifications. It all looks so simple and quick on TV, but it's not nearly like that in real life.

Finding good mentors is always important. Only thing is that it can take some time to get to the "good/better/best" group. On the surface, one group can look as good as the next, unfortunately. I've seen that happen several times, even being a part of that situation in seeking credible/reliable information on other brands of vehicles, expanding my knowledges in the process. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen overnight!

@Vinsanity, welcome to one of the best knowledge bases on Chrysler Corp C-body (and some other platforms) on the net. A diverse group, to say the least. Hang around, look, watch, and learn. It can become a little addictive, too! Ask questions as desired as that's how learning can happen. It CAN be a big learning curve, but worth it.

Enjoy!
CBODY67
You must be very good at the keyboard.:poke:
 
You can even upgrade your 318 to over 390 with a stroker kit and .o3o over. Put new heads on or the SB heads with the heart shaped combustion chamber, you will have great running small block. I did this with my 46 Dodge Power Wagon, and the engine ran strong!
 
I dont know if this applies or not, but I had a 66 coronet 318 poly/727 and needed to swap the engine. I found a 383/727 from a 67 coronet and it dropped right in after using the lower 318 mount halves connected to the upper 383 mount halves and then removing the spacer on the fan.
 
Oh... What the heck, this thread is becoming a little too complicated, so let's do some basic Mopar edumaction.

@Vinsanity Here's some basic info you have to know first. If you already know it, great.

We're just going to deal with 60's and 70's V8 engines, no new stuff, no oddball 50's (350 & 383RB engines), no 426hemi and no early 318 poly engines.

Small block engines are 273, 318, 340 and 360. These are known as LA engines.

Big block engines are split into two categories. 383 and 400 engines are B engines. 413, 426wedge and 440 are RB engines. The main difference being the height of the engine block.

LA engines can be had with a 904 or 727 automatic transmission

B and RB engines used a 727 automatic transmission.

Following me?

LA uses a different bolt pattern for the transmission than the B/RB engines. That means no swapping trans from LA to B/RB.

The 904 trans is also shorter and uses a different rear mount and the drive shaft is longer. So if your car has a 727, swapping to a B/RB 727 is no big deal, but swapping from a 904 to a 727 brings a lot of issues to the mix. Linkages and trans cooler lines have to be changed along with driveshaft and mount.

Still with me?

Engine mounts are two pieces with the lower piece interchanging between engines but LA and B/RB engines use different upper engine mounts. B and RB use the same. LA engines use the same right mount with 273 and 318 using a different left mount than the 340 and 360.

So.... To go from a 318 with a 727 to let's say a 440 (go big or go home), you'll need another transmission to start with. The old exhaust won't bolt up to the manifolds, so you have to change the head pipes. The radiator may have the lower outlet on the wrong side and you may have to come up with the proper combo of water pump and radiator to make it work. Wiring is pretty easy, just extending the coil primary wire should do it.

All is expensive, time consuming and can be very frustrating to a novice.

Better alternatives are there for you! First, consider keeping the 318. Add a dual exhaust, 4 bbl carb and manifold and maybe change the rear end ratio to 3.23 or even 3.55. More power can be had with a change to 360 heads and a better camshaft.

Next alternative is go to a 360 engine. Cheaper alternative to a 340 and a great motor. All should bolt up etc. Dual exhaust and 3.23 gears will get you down the road nicely.

All this is without going to stroker kits etc. That's another conversation.
 
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