Engine Swap: 383 to 440 - 1965 Plymouth Fury

[Travis75az]

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and I'm hoping the combined experience here can educate me on the trials and tribulations of the 65 Fury.

Situation:

• I purchased a 1965 Fury III roller (no motor or trans) which had a 383 mated to a A-833 4speed.
• I already own a stroker 493 RB Stroker motor (10:3:1, drilled pilot for 4spd, compatible driver's side threaded engine mount tabs for 1965 motor mounts, 580 ftlbs @ 4300rpm / 530HP @ 5300rpm). I have in possession the Schumacher motor mounts/insulators.
• I already own a Passon Performance 23 spline A-833 configured for the Fury, RAM 10.9 Powergrip clutch & 10.5 flywheel (these are compatible and rated for 580HP). Assured 23 spline will handle the power.
• I will be changing the drive shaft, third member, and axles (8 3/4 re). Front end has pwr disc brakes, drum rear. Essentially, I understand I must upgrade the majority of the DT to compensate for the increased horsepower.
• Intended to be a weekend street monster with occasional track days (a couple times over the summer). I'm running bias ply tires (because I like the period look).

Complication:

• It's difficult to find information regarding 383 to 440 swaps on the 65 Fury, which is concerning. I have just enough understanding to be dangerous.
• I'm unsure of any differences in fit between the B/RB block (I know the RB is "taller" and "wider", but I have no idea how that'll impact the clearances in the Fury (power steering, shorty headers, torsion bars, etc.).

Questions:

• Does anyone have any first hand experience with the 383/440 swap?
• What are the obstacles/headwinds?
• Any changes to the steering, firewall, etc?
• On a scale of one to ten, one - a couple busted knuckles and several profanities, and ten - douse the whole project in gasoline, burn it, and my dignity to ashes.

 

[LocuMob]

I did it in a '66, and I went from a crude factory style exhaust to headers, so that took care of that aspect, but headers for a 383 may be too short for a 440. The block should sit in the same spot as the 383, just taller and wider. I didn't have any problems with steering box being in the way. I had to modify my throttle linkage to get it up to the right height. I did have to use a short air filter element in an open sided air cleaner to fit under the hood. I don't use a rod for the filter, the hood keeps it in place. (I have an Edelbrock Performer intake for reference) A piece of foam or sourcing a drop down base will keep the air cleaner housing off the hood. Other than that, I didn't modify anything else.

 

[Travis75az]

I did it in a '66, and I went from a crude factory style exhaust to headers, so that took care of that aspect, but headers for a 383 may be too short for a 440. The block should sit in the same spot as the 383, just taller and wider. I didn't have any problems with steering box being in the way. I had to modify my throttle linkage to get it up to the right height. I did have to use a short air filter element in an open sided air cleaner to fit under the hood. I don't use a rod for the filter, the hood keeps it in place. (I have an Edelbrock Performer intake for reference) A piece of foam or sourcing a drop down base will keep the air cleaner housing off the hood. Other than that, I didn't modify anything else.

Thanks for the quick response LocuMob.

• Did you end up running long-tube headers or shorties and what brand?
• Do you have manual or power steering?
• Do you have any pics to share?

Thanks again!

 

[LocuMob]

I bought tti headers, the exhaust I had didn't have hangers and gaskets lasted minutes, but I love the headers and the pipes I got with them (3").

I have power steering.
I have pictures somewhere, give me a couple days to find them.

 

[65Fury440]

Hi Travis, welcome to the forum!
You have a majority of the pieces for the puzzle.
My car was an original 383 4 speed car, converted to 440, now stroked 440.
A couple thoughts-
a 440 is a little wider and taller (3/4") than a 383. They came with a 426 from the factory, so things like steering shaft, master cylinder/booster is not an issue.
The header thing has always been an issue. The standard answer is TTI headers. They are about a grand for coated headers.
There are others, possibly Hooker 5113 HKR that will work, as well as Hedmans.
I had Hookers on my car when I got it, then the Hedmans, Both work, but had a couple dings to make it happen. I don't know the model numbers of either.
( I have the Hedmans and might sell them if you want some used stuff).
If you have an aftermarket intake, pay attention to height. I had an Edelbrock Performer RPM, good intake, but, needed a drop base air cleaner.
Might as well get your driveshaft updated to a slip yoke. This piece bolts to the output flange of the trans, then you get a shaft made that has a splined slip yoke.

 

[Travis75az]

Hi Travis, welcome to the forum!
You have a majority of the pieces for the puzzle.
My car was an original 383 4 speed car, converted to 440, now stroked 440.
A couple thoughts-
a 440 is a little wider and taller (3/4") than a 383. They came with a 426 from the factory, so things like steering shaft, master cylinder/booster is not an issue.
The header thing has always been an issue. The standard answer is TTI headers. They are about a grand for coated headers.
There are others, possibly Hooker 5113 HKR that will work, as well as Hedmans.
I had Hookers on my car when I got it, then the Hedmans, Both work, but had a couple dings to make it happen. I don't know the model numbers of either.
( I have the Hedmans and might sell them if you want some used stuff).
If you have an aftermarket intake, pay attention to height. I had an Edelbrock Performer RPM, good intake, but, needed a drop base air cleaner.
Might as well get your driveshaft updated to a slip yoke. This piece bolts to the output flange of the trans, then you get a shaft made that has a splined slip yoke.
View attachment 414221

This is awesome! Thanks so much for the detailed response as I'm breathing a little sigh of relief.

• I've got a set of shorty Hedman headers (#780 raw steel), but they're 2 1/2 collectors which I think will be too restrictive. The TTI headers seem like the way to go, but it's hard to swallow the 1K price tag. I'm sure they're worth it..... Let me know if your Hedmans are different. I may take you up on the offer!
• I've got a Edelbrock Torker II intake manifold, so I may need to look for a Mopar hood scoop. I've seen a couple Fury's with these and they don't look too bad.
• My 833 had a slip yoke DS, so I'm guessing it's not from a 65 Fury, but it does fit.

Again, many thanks for the education! I hope my car turns out half as nice as yours. Love those steel cheater slicks!

 

[65Fury440]

You're welcome.
Oh one other item hou might need to address is your fuel system.
A company called fine lines make 3/8 fuel line for our cars.I found a 3/8sending unit on Ebay.

 

[Travis75az]

You're welcome.
Oh one other item hou might need to address is your fuel system.
A company called fine lines make 3/8 fuel line for our cars.I found a 3/8sending unit on Ebay.

Sweet. Man, you've been a great help! Truly appreciate it.

 

[Badvert65]

Header choice is limited to high dollar parts. I have a set of Schumacher Tri-Y headers on the tunnel ram engine. I bought a set of TTI long tubes to use with a blower motor I am building. Factory HP exhaust manifolds work well. You might try some of the 'Block Hugger headers', I have heard some people use them but I have no direct knowlege of what actually works. I went from a 383 to a 440, the biggest problem was that the RB is about 3/4 inch wider and if things are tight with the 383, it will be more so with the 440. When I was actively racing, I had a custom set of long tube headers made (I could afford them in the mid 80's). The 383 used Hooker super comp B body headers. The driver side fit perfect, but the passenger side only fit after being 'modified' with a big hammer. The problem was the passenger side torsion bar, the header tube ran smack into it. I wouldn't recommend the hammer method as one of the tubes was crushed nearly flat. When I went to the 440, Nothing fit the passenger side so I had a custom set built. I really liked those headers but they eventually rusted out and that is when I ended up with the Tri-Y. For racing, they didn't flow quite as well as the long tube headers but work great on the street. I got the TTI long tubes because I felt the blown stroker would need to breath.
When I switched from the 383 to the 440, I reused all the accessories, camshaft, carb, the heads (ported big valve heads-pre aluminum availability). I had to get a different intake manifold, but that was basically it. Transmission was originally a 727 cable shift with a slip yoke from the factory. 65 was the first year for that. I made no changes to any of the driveline from the trans back.
At the time, the 383 was running mid 14's in the quarter. The switch to 440 resulted in mid 13's right off the bat. For my purposes, it was one of the best changes I ever made.
By the way, your Fury looks fantastic.

 

[Badvert65]

I think all big block 1965 727 automatics might have been slip yokes, but I couldn't say for certain. All I know is that mine was a slip yoke from the factory. Now, my 65 Belvedere (slant six auto) was not a slip yoke but was a flange style.
jus sayin...

 

[65Fury440]

I think all big block 1965 727 automatics might have been slip yokes, but I couldn't say for certain. All I know is that mine was a slip yoke from the factory. Now, my 65 Belvedere (slant six auto) was not a slip yoke but was a flange style.
jus sayin...

Yes that's right.65 autos were slip yoke,4, speeds were ball and trunnion.

 

[Travis75az]

Header choice is limited to high dollar parts. I have a set of Schumacher Tri-Y headers on the tunnel ram engine. I bought a set of TTI long tubes to use with a blower motor I am building. Factory HP exhaust manifolds work well. You might try some of the 'Block Hugger headers', I have heard some people use them but I have no direct knowlege of what actually works. I went from a 383 to a 440, the biggest problem was that the RB is about 3/4 inch wider and if things are tight with the 383, it will be more so with the 440. When I was actively racing, I had a custom set of long tube headers made (I could afford them in the mid 80's). The 383 used Hooker super comp B body headers. The driver side fit perfect, but the passenger side only fit after being 'modified' with a big hammer. The problem was the passenger side torsion bar, the header tube ran smack into it. I wouldn't recommend the hammer method as one of the tubes was crushed nearly flat. When I went to the 440, Nothing fit the passenger side so I had a custom set built. I really liked those headers but they eventually rusted out and that is when I ended up with the Tri-Y. For racing, they didn't flow quite as well as the long tube headers but work great on the street. I got the TTI long tubes because I felt the blown stroker would need to breath.
When I switched from the 383 to the 440, I reused all the accessories, camshaft, carb, the heads (ported big valve heads-pre aluminum availability). I had to get a different intake manifold, but that was basically it. Transmission was originally a 727 cable shift with a slip yoke from the factory. 65 was the first year for that. I made no changes to any of the driveline from the trans back.
At the time, the 383 was running mid 14's in the quarter. The switch to 440 resulted in mid 13's right off the bat. For my purposes, it was one of the best changes I ever made.
By the way, your Fury looks fantastic.

Thanks again for the info Badvert65! Can't wait to see this blower motor in your Fury....

 

[Travis75az]

Did you guys change your radiator when going to the 440? Are there aftermarket aluminum bolt-ins available? Just wondering if she'll stay cool in normal street driving.

 

[Badvert65]

I already had a big radiator in my Fury, so nothing changed there.

 

[65pacecar]

Yes that's right.65 autos were slip yoke,4, speeds were ball and trunnion.

I have two automatic cars, both big blocks and one is a slip and one is a ball and trunnion. Both very original cars. Ball car is an early date code, slip car is mid year.

 

[65pacecar]

One area of difficulty for the 440 swap is the Motor Mounts. Most 440s don’t have the front boss drilled for the 65 C Body (and 68 A Body) LH motor mount. Check your block for them. If not, some fabrication will be needed I don’t think there are any conversion kits out there for it.

 

[300rag]

One area of difficulty for the 440 swap is the Motor Mounts. Most 440s don’t have the front boss drilled for the 65 C Body (and 68 A Body) LH motor mount. Check your block for them. If not, some fabrication will be needed I don’t think there are any conversion kits out there for it.

He did state in the first post that the provisions are there.

 

[65pacecar]

He did state in the first post that the provisions are there.

Good to hear. I should have read more thoroughly.