1. Big_John

    Big_John Illegitimi non carborundum FCBO Gold Member

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    Recently, I saw a kit for checking the level of ethanol in pump gas. It looked very simple to use, basically mix water and gas together and then see what separates out. A little pricey for what it was and I got to thinking about how I could check it with a graduated cylinder.

    I got to looking around a little more and found this!



    The test kit I found:
    https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B073HLS...olid=37FPUUXHT633A&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

    There's a good video on that link.

    I try to buy non-ethanol gas when possible, but the recent trip to Carlisle made that impossible. The places off Rt 81 don't have anything except the ethanol laced stuff. I'm curious of the percentage when I start putting non ethanol in and it gets mixed.
     
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  2. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    West Coast is mostly 15 percent moonshine. They have both a winter and a summer blend here, but it is mostly all crap in older engines. I notice on the '05 Neon that the mileage is about 2mpg less on the ethanol fuels, so much for saving the planet. I am sure that the 2mpg drop in mileage more than compensates for the supposedly cleaner burning blended fuels. C body with a 22 gal tank if you add half that capacity, 11 gal, for a ten percent ethanol blend, that would drop the percentage of ethanol to 5 percent.

    Dave
     
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  3. 70NEWYORKER

    70NEWYORKER Well-Known Member

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    You're not supposed to look behind the curtain... ignore that little man sitting there, that wizard of bullshit.
     
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  4. Big_John

    Big_John Illegitimi non carborundum FCBO Gold Member

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    Oh yeah, it's simple math, but it would be interesting to see a couple things. Number one is if the "ethanol free" is really free of ethanol. If you think about it, they are using the same hoses and whatever internal to the pumps. Then it would also be tough to know what the percentage of what's left after you've filled it a couple times.

    I thought I had a good graduated cylinder, but I can't find it. I'll order one and see what I have in the tank right now. In theory, it should be less than 10% because I started out with non ethanol gas. Two tanks of ethanol gas later, I'm curious what it is now.
     
  5. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Senior Member

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    Using that "phase separation" method is also a way to make non-ethanol gas from ethanol gas. The result is allegedly about 2 pump octane numbers lower than the base fuel. Ethanol is an octane enhancer.

    Rather than a graduated cylinder, a calibrated fruit jar would work, too. Easier to find, just that you generally have to get six or twelve at a time.

    Starting with the base leaded gasoline of prior times, it allegedly takes 5% more crude to make unleaded fuel than leaded fuel. Guess how much shortfall there was on the first energy crisis? 5%. No loss in energy level, though.

    The first ReFormulatedFuel (RFG) was supposed, according to Chevron (who had a very extensive "back part" of their website devoted to such, back in the '90s) result in about l3.5% less fuel economy, which I was able to document on the car I was driving at the time (1970 Skylark 350 2bbl, CA emissions). Later E10 is supposed to yield about 6% less fuel economy than E0.

    The Ethanol Lobby has now got E15 approved for year round sale, rather than just "smog season". They claim it makes newer cars run better and more economically, but with adaptive engine controls and ONE more octane number above E10, I'd like to see their significant data on that! Locally, it's 5cents gallon less money than E10 (at the same station). One survey they touted claimed that consumers wanted E15 (about 60% of whom didn't know what it was, just that it was less expensive with allegedly better performance and mpg, so what's not to like?).

    So, consider ethanol to be a "fuel extended" for normal gasoline, rather than a "cleaner burning" fuel (any data to prove that?) per se. Biobutanol is related to ethanol, can be produced in converted ethanol facilities, with NONE of the issues of ethanol. BB at 16.5% yields better emissions than E10, with NONE of the downside issues of E10. And it's been approved by the EPA for use in motor fuel for years!

    Some state legislatures put the use of ethanol into their state laws a while back, to that's all that can be added in those particular states . . . unless the laws change (no chance of that, any time soon, I suspect).

    The interesting thing is that when they remodeled the WalMart fuel stations (Murphy USA oil company supplied), they added non-ethanol fuel into their product offerings. About 30cents/gallon more, though. There are supposed to be some private brands of fuel in the southern Midwest which sell a full selection of octanes in ethanol-free fuel. One of the ethanol-free gasoline websites had a state by state listing of ethanol free fuel availability, most of which are usually private-brand fuels near marinas, at 87 octane or there abouts. Not sure how up-to-date their listings are.

    Just some thoughts,
    CBODY67
     
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  6. Fury440

    Fury440 At my age everything's a good idea FCBO Gold Member

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    So, if you put 10 gal in a 15 gal drum, then added 1 gal of water, stir, let it settle, then drain the water from the bottom you would have pure gas for you car.

    Here in Calgary, the Co-op stations do not pump any ethanol fuel so that's where to get fuel for your classic.
     
  7. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Senior Member

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    In the USA, there's a thing called "road tax", which might otherwise be termed "gasoline tax", which is supposed to help fund highways and such. Purchasing off-highway-source fuel for a road-going vehicle is very frowned upon, typically. But at the chain stations which sell E0, it's figured into the final price. One reason that av gas stations were not supposed to sell high octane fuel to muscle car owners. Of course, if it's purchased and dispensed into a carry-around fuel holder, who's to say what it ultimately goes into? Which can be kind of a pain to do, all things considered, 5 gallons at a time.

    Just some thoughts,
    CBODY67
     
  8. Big_John

    Big_John Illegitimi non carborundum FCBO Gold Member

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    Being in the Finger Lakes, there's all sorts of gas stations for the boats, especially on the roads headed towards the lakes. There's three places within a few miles that sell ethanol free. It's not getting any cheaper... In fact, with the nice weather, the price went up. $3.44 for the last I bought. The octane has also come down a little to 90.
     
  9. march

    march Active Member

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  10. Rapidtrans777

    Rapidtrans777 Well-Known Member FCBO Gold Member

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    I noticed that yesterday. We are down here at New Smyrna Bch for a high school reunion and the Walmart has ethanol free (93 octane) and diesel available at each pump.
     
  11. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Senior Member

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    Need to note the color of "the handle" for EACH fuel type and blend. 93 pump octane ethanol-free would be a BIG seller down here, I suspect, but all we have at WalMart is 87 pump octane ethanol-free.

    The small engine turbo people perceive E85 as their "race fuel" for their FlexFuel little engines.

    CBODY67
     
  12. Rapidtrans777

    Rapidtrans777 Well-Known Member FCBO Gold Member

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    The ethanol free had blue handles. When I first saw the blue handle as I was pulling up I thought they had put in bulk DEF.
     
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  13. fc7_plumcrazy

    fc7_plumcrazy Senior Member

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    here in germany most gasoline is E5. You can get it at every gas station.
    We have E10 but since it was invented they made big warnings to owner of older cars (not classics) to check if their year 2000 Brand X car is allowed to use it without harm.

    We only have one gas company which sell E0 gasoline (Aral) and it has a octane rating of 102 in germany. That is what I use in my cars.
     
  14. Big_John

    Big_John Illegitimi non carborundum FCBO Gold Member

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    So... Checking what's in the tank, I get about 10% methanol.

    EXMMkbV.jpg
     
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  15. cantflip

    cantflip Old Jagoff with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    Good sleuthing John!

    All I've found near Carlisle was crap gas too... the 40 gal tank in the 'burb solved this year, but IDK about in the future.

    BTW OTC has sold a gasoline quality test kit for decades... I believe it goes back to the gasohol days. Remember when warranties were voided by gasohol?
    7670_9543_0.jpg
    The eyedropper and small graduated cylinder allowed for the same test you did, with a small fuel sample (less to throw away). The water paste and dipstick for the tank was the same idea used to check for water in service station tanks. The reed vapor pressure test, done with the aluminum cylinder/gauge could be used to check volatility... for example winter/summer blends.

    This was a dealer tool at one point. IDK exactly when they would have been shipped as a required tool, but I saw the same kits in the tool room of both a Ford and a Dodge dealer. Both were pretty old in the 90's.

    I can say from first hand testing, there were lots of E10 samples that tested closer to 20% from certain gas stations 5-10 years ago, when I was tasked with showing how to use the kit.

    Maybe there is a small fuel supplier, near Carlisle, that we could get to deliver 55 gallon drums of decent fuel? I was getting close to that at one point around here, just because I despise the stuff so much.