Front disc brake lines

sixpkrt

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Couple weeks ago ordered the 69-71 lines, only to find out they were the 5 line kit, that is used with the stub mounted metering assembly.
FCBO member Mark came by the shop to help with the job, :thumbsup: but with the wrong parts, the brake lines will have to wait for another day.
Returned the 5 line kit, and ordered the 4 line kit that was purchased for $68.25, and I'll only see a $28.14 refund. (1st rant)
HKT6902 return.jpg

After talking with the tech, he determined the 4 line kit is what I needed. Ordered placed, shipped and received.
Comparing the new, 4 line kit front disc line with the old line, quickly determined this ain't working either. (rant #2):wtf:
HKT6902 old_new.jpg

This diagram is for the set-up that was initially received, however my 71 NYer does not have the metering valve assembly.
HKT6905 w metering valve assy_1970 Line routing 5 line kit.jpg

My combination metering valve/brake warning switch assembly is mounted on the frame, and should be the unit that requires the 4 line brake line kit. No?
HKT6902 P valve 1.jpg


The company the I purchased both brake line kits was The Right Stuff.
They keep sending the Wong Stuff. I expect to see another refund of only $28.14 for the 2nd kit ordered from this company. After spending $136.50 between these 2 orders, I'll just see a $52.92 refund. (rant #3)
I'm only ranting about the costs and my losses so other members are aware of the pitfalls before ordering from them.
I'm either going to try to bend my own line, using the old one as the template, but I would rather order another pre-bent kit if someone can recommend a reputable company here.
 
www.inlinetube.com is a quality supplier. Is this for a disc conversion? The metering valve was used on all C Body Mopars with discs in '71. You probably could add the metering valve and use the 4 line kit. Your booster looks to be a drum unit is why I am asking.

Dave
 
From what I see here is that yours is like the 73 Newport I transplanted into my 66 Polara.
Single proportioning/Distribution block right under the M/C
 
From what I see here is that yours is like the 73 Newport I transplanted into my 66 Polara.
Single proportioning/Distribution block right under the M/C

If that is the case, that is why none of the parts you ordered fit. Someone used the later disc parts to convert a drum brake car. The factory setup would have used a Bendix dual diaphragm booster and a metering valve. The small valve under the booster would have been a brake warning valve only.

Dave
 
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The booster is orginal to the car, and the disc brake rotors that were replaced most likely were too. 57K original miles on the 71 NYer. Build date was in November.
 
The booster is orginal to the car, and the disc brake rotors that were replaced most likely were too. 57K original miles on the 71 NYer. Build date was in November.

Even though the diagram you have shown is the one that is supposed to be correct on this car, I suspect then that there was a change made during the production run that did not make the manual initially. The '72-73 C-Bodies used a larger single diaphragm booster with the disc brakes. I think that is what you have along with the missing metering valve. I think that the '72-73 brake line setup is probably correct for this car.
 
You can down load the '72 chassis service manual from www.mymopar.com manuals are in the tools/reference section and compare the line routing to what you have.

Dave
 
All of my 71 Chryslers have the distrbution block on the frame rail just below the master cylinder (it also contains the warning light function when either the front or rear lines lose pressure).

I went through all this same crap with The Right Stuff in May of last year when I ordered a set for one of my 71 300s back then. The lines were incorrectly shaped near the distribution block, had the wrong fittings and some other issues. So I ended up sending them my original lines and they had to copy them exactly. I told them in no uncertain terms that their lines were incorrect as sent, and they needed to change their future lines for 1971 Chryslers to match mine identically as modified based on the lines I sent them, or they would have future problems just like you are experiencing, but they said they would not do that unless there was some way to confirm that what I sent them from my original car were correct. I think the person I talked to was Stephanie, and as a result, since I have other cars, I ordered a total of 5 corrected sets at that time just in case I ever restore that many of my cars so I would never have to go through this again.

I also recall, I ordered the front to rear line from a 72 model C body and with a little rebending, not much, was able to make that one work as sent.

I am sure she must remember me, as she messed up some other handling stuff as well, but eventually got everything correct in the end. It just took forever and plenty of patience - noooo really a ton of patience. :BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:

They seemed to eat some of the cost due to their errors but not all of it, like you are experiencing.

Maybe what might help you is to have them duplicate my order if they still have the modifications in their computer. I can give you my full name and order number if you want to PM me.

I know your pain!!!!!

The only thing that kept me going was that they were the only supplier actually listing anything available for a 1971 Chrysler, so I decided I had to work with them if I was ever going to get something better than home made.

Oh, and still keep me in mind if you should ever want to sell your stunning 71 New Yorker. :D
It is just superb!

Steve
 
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The two lines pictured appear to be the same line? They ship these "folded" and you need to un-fold them.

Not all mine had the tags noting where to un-fold them.


Alan
 
The two lines pictured appear to be the same line? They ship these "folded" and you need to un-fold them.

Not all mine had the tags noting where to un-fold them.


Alan

Only the right side (in the photo) of the new passenger side line (on the car) shown needs to be unfolded part way down as you observe, but even if you do, it still won't work. I went through all of that.
 
I would ditch the single unit proportioning valve and source the correct two piece metering and warning light switch. If you feel you have to replace the lines, then you probably need to replace the switch anyway. These companies are only basing your order on what you tell them. If you said that you had a ‘73 setup you would have had the correct lines to begin with.
 
Even though the diagram you have shown is the one that is supposed to be correct on this car, I suspect then that there was a change made during the production run that did not make the manual initially. The '72-73 C-Bodies used a larger single diaphragm booster with the disc brakes. I think that is what you have along with the missing metering valve. I think that the '72-73 brake line setup is probably correct for this car.
Really? I thought the changeover to the single cast unit was a cost cutting measure starting in ‘73. Even a late build ‘71 would still have the two piece unit. This car is an early November build.
 
The 5 line 1970 brake line set was because of the two piece metering valve system. It ended with the 1970 models. 71 and later models were the 4 piece lines like on the 71 New Yorker at issue in this thread.

All the 71 models I have ever seen had the single piece setup, at least on the Chryslers. I am going to check my 1971 Dodges to see if they are the same as the Chryslers. Not having two separate pieces for the metering valve saved expense and assembly time due to the labor of extra operations, and meant two less parts to track for the assembly plants. It was a no brainer. The separate "inertia" valve on the front of the frame really wasn't that effective in slightly delaying activation of the rear brakes to minimize locking up on panic stops anyway. Hence the change to the single piece to save money in 1971.

I have yet to need to replace the single piece distribution valve on any of my 71 & up cars.
 
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From what I see here is that yours is like the 73 Newport I transplanted into my 66 Polara.
I do not believe anything has ever been touched on this car, and am sure no transplant have occurred.
It wasn't mentioned before, but I'm not doing a conversion, only updating factory parts that needed attention.
I think that the '72-73 brake line setup is probably correct for this car.
I've got the 72 FSM and it shows 2 different types of hydraulic system control valves, 1) the brake warning switch/proportioning valve and 2) the brake warning switch/metering valve. (this is the one on my car)
BWS Proportioning Valve.jpg
BWS Metering Valve.jpg
pages from 72 FSM attached...
In the FSM for 1971 Page Section 5-54 it notes the units with the PV, use a dual unit system, with a separate MV. It also states Chrysler and Imperial models use a dual unit BWS/MV. Your knowledge is unspeakably amazing on these cars, but as you had mentioned, there could have been change with the assembly procedures, that can be missing in the FSM details.
with either year FSM manuals, the brake lines are not discussed, with the exception of the line end connections.


@saforwardlook The problems I have had with getting the correct lines are probably my fault. I'm not a mechanic at any stretch , but I will try my best to tackle a project that I think I can do on my own, and will sometimes get in over my head. I don't think replacing the brake lines would be that difficult for anyone to do. The frustration and rants were more about the return policy with the vendor and the small amount I'll see for returning the items.
After seeing your replies, and your past experience with the same company, I may try contacting them 1 more time since the contact information you may have includes a direct ph # or email. The 800 # listed on their site could be just be a call center. :confused:

The two lines pictured appear to be the same line? They ship these "folded" and you need to un-fold them.

After looking at these lines side by side again, you may be right. I didn't even think to assume they are folded. No instuctions were included with the shipment.
And now knowing I only get $28 bucks back if I return them, I'd rather try bending them to see if I can get it to work.
Thanks for the suggestion!:thumbsup:

If you said that you had a ‘73 setup you would have had the correct lines to begin with.

The Right Stuff webpage lists their items pretty clearly to avoid the wrong items being ordered, but with the 69-71 Chrysler with disc brakes, they do not show a design of the lines listed, as they do with brake lines they sell for other models.
I wouldn't have ordered the 73 brake line set up for my car, being its a 71, unless I was converting from drum to disc, since that would be the right application.
Even a late build ‘71 would still have the two piece unit. This car is an early November build.
In 71, the FSM indicates there were two units used, and states the Chrysler and Imperial used the single unit BWS/MV.
I believe all 71 Imperials had disc brakes, but with Chrysler, the disc brakes were an option, and IMO most likely used the BWS/MV single unit set up.
 
One of the things that used to drive us crazy as techs was that the manual would be published and it was supposed to the "Gospel". Problem was changes to production items would happen and that stuff would not show up in "updates" to the FSM until sometimes months later, and in the meantime we had cars to do warranty repairs on for which the FSM was now incorrect or obsolete. Mopar was also famous for using multiple solutions to the same problem in the same year. It could get very confusing. To add to the confusion, sometimes the Chrysler C Bodies for example, would get a production line update and the rest of the C Body line might not. As far as replacing the lines on this vehicle go, The In Line Tube Company will make whatever you need if you send them a sample and I would suggest that you go that route as you will be assured of parts that fit.

Dave
 
The two lines pictured appear to be the same line? They ship these "folded" and you need to un-fold them.

Not all mine had the tags noting where to un-fold them.
This was good advice!:thumbsup: I believe with a little finessing, this will work.
Using some zip ties to hold the old brake line to the new one, and unfolding as you recommended, I am a lot closer to finishing this than previously thought, but a few more bends will still be needed, as this will be mapped to the factory brake line route on the car.
Steve @saforwardlook and I spoke today, and he noted the fitting on the lines he received from the Right Stuff were different, and wouldn't work with the factory BWS/MW on his car, noting he went through this same experience as mentioned in his thread posted earlier. He was right, and more good advice. :thankyou: (I am including a pic of the fitting differences)
The fitting for the hydraulic brake hose with the new line will work. I'll only need to double flare the one end.
Pics are better than words....
Brake line bends.jpg
Brake line bends 2.jpg
Brake line BWS MV fitting.jpg
Brake line to Front R hydraulic hose.jpg
 
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