Gold Hiding in this Lump of Old Iron?

[Gerald Morris]

Having mentioned this old engine a few times recently, and progressed to the point of starting to know a little about it, I decided to share my observations and questions about this 1969 383 Commando engine I snagged nearly a decade ago for less than $100. First, a look at what's now on the engine stand:

I have the pair of 906 heads that went on this in the locker. The previous owner had the valves double sprung for a little speedier operation than lugging around an RV, truck or landyacht, and a Melling high pressure oil pump. as well as the windage tray I discovered when I removed the oil pan. He admitted he had allowed this engine to get wet in the weather, and I saw evidence of it when removing the lifters, but the cam rotated easily once I nudged them out. Only the #1 cylinder lifters clearly show corrosion beyond redemption. I scrubbed the rest of them clean with a bit of kerosene and elbow grease, labeling each one's cylinder and position (front or back) as I proceeded. They appear to be very standard Mopar B/RB type hydraulic lifters, NOT the sort recommended by the vendor of this cam:

I wrapped this old treasure in old denim for the present after buffing off a little surface rust a,d old oil. The old oil has protected most of this engine from what rain got to it, and I have kept it under my shed carport in a large trash bag after the first couple years of owning it. I'm fairly certain, based on the information easily legible on the rear of this cam that I have the following:

Supercam Racing Cam [160125] - $354.00 : ISKY Racing Cams, Do It Right

This gives me a third cam to choose from for this block, not counting the one in the 1968 engine and the 400. I like this cam! It shows VERY LITTLE APPARENT DAMAGE, and the modest specs seem good for Gertrude. I will have my machinist look it over, in case I'm missing something, but I certainly prefer it to the poor rounded, chipped remnant of a cam currently still serving in Gertrude's otherwise strong engine. THAT CRISIS IS WHAT SPURS ME TO START BUILDING THIS ENGINE BLOCK!!! I want a running engine ready to dop into Gertrude before I remedy whatever the current engine needs, and it needs work, ASAP! At least, by using the nice little adjustable pressure regulator screw sold by 440 Source, I now get about 62 PSI oil pressure after warming up when turning the engine over 2000 rpm. By spurting clean 10W-40 oil through the critical paths in the engine, I've almost eliminated the nasty lifter clatter I get between 1500-2000 rpm. I checked for ANY metal debris in the motor oil 2 weeks ago when changing the oil and installing the pressure adjuster. Nothing apparent in either pan or filter. GOOD!

The cam came out very readily with me using an old head bolt for the handle. I took great care to ease it STRAIGHT out, bumping no bearing. The fuel pump rod is stuck below where it would contact the cam anyway, and he had the port plated over. I just gently used the head bolt w my ratchet to rotate the cam a bit, saw it emerge a little just from that, and used a rag, leather gloves and a flat screwdriver (to support the shaft, not touching the hardened surfaces, HEAVEN FORBID!) and the PBBlaster dripped off the journals as I cradled the prize on my fore-arm.

The cylinders were bored 0.030" over stock, and there remains a little surface rust, but almost all of that came off with a speedy use of a fine steel wire brush in a drill motor, which also cleaned the carbon off the pistons. I've put a bit of WD-40, PBlaster and Marvel oil in those bores, and have tried the breaker bar on the crankshaft to look for any mobility, but have yet to see it. With the cam out, I will soon rigorously clean as much cylinder surface as possible with each bore, fill them with plenty penetrant and maybe more light mineral oil, and maybe use my brass block to deliver some sharp hammer raps to the edges of each piston, then see if I can move them while attached to the crankshaft. I shall use a nice bit of penetrant and oil on the crank after cleaning the bottomside and before finishing the bores. I WANT that crank to free up, BADLY!

This block was cast 02-17-1969, and likely went into a 1970 Plymouth Belvedere or Satellite. I will need to borrow the oilpan from the 1968 engine when I get to that point in assembly. That can wait. I saw not a scrap of gasket material on either pan, windage tray or timing chain cover, just PLENTY red RTV. I'll never be able to relate to folks using gobs of RTV, but refusing to spend the small change on proper GASKETS! Ah well, the fellow meant well when he mostly GAVE this engine to me. I met him when searching Craig's List for a WATERPUMP HOUSING back in 2017! I got it, and he threw the engine in with it. God-willing, I can get this stuff to make power again....

 

[413]

Don't hit the edges of the piston the ring land can break.
See photo, this is where the piston pin bosses are under the piston, if you are going to, this is the strongest place to hit them.

And the crank is not stuck, it's the piston rings to the cylinder wall.

Did you make notes on which bores had the rust? Were there some cylinders without rust?

What does it say on the pass front machined head gasket surface? E383 or F383? HP Or not?

Now look on pass side just above oil pan rail there will be a VIN or last 8 of the VIN, what is it?

 

[Gerald Morris]

Don't hit the edges of the piston the ring land can break.
See photo, this is where the piston pin bosses are under the piston, if you are going to, this is the strongest place to hit them.

GOOD to know! I tapped them last night, not far from the pin bosses. I use a nice brass piston for my shock transmitter which has a couple inches diameter. This jarred loose bits of ring rust from the tops, which I carefully got out using a very thin flat blade screwdriver. Then I soaked them with more penetrant.

And the crank is not stuck, it's the piston rings to the cylinder wall.

That's what I think also, but when I have it belly-up, I douse the crank with WD-40 to wash off the surfaces, then PBlast.....

Did you make notes on which bores had the rust? Were there some cylinders without rust?

NONE of the bores had much more than a light patina, and none lacked. #s 5,7,4 and 8 all had the most, as these pistons are near the bottom of their strokes.

What does it say on the pass front machined head gasket surface? E383 or F383? HP Or not?

E 83. You can see what's there to see.

Now look on pass side just above oil pan rail there will be a VIN or last 8 of the VIN, what is it?

Can't see anything just above the pan rail, yet.... I want to let the penetrant oils soak into the odd # bores this afternoon before I tilt the block the other way for the even #s. All I have for data on either side of the block for now are the casting number: 2468130 - 7.

I'll scrub it clean along the oilpan rail in the next couple days. Let's see how well the penetrant gets down around those pistons. I've thought of warming the block up a bit to expand the bores a little, but it occurs to me the coefficient of expansion for aluminum is higher, so that might not be a good idea. I need several gallons of kerosene to wash out that motor also. There are sundry vermin nests, bits of oil and dirt and such, all of which I want gone BEFORE I do more than remove the crank mains. I think with careful cleaning and patience, I can get the crank to turn. We will see, so Stay Tuned!

 

[Gerald Morris]

BREAKTHROUGH!!! At 1920 this evening, after picking more of the rusted shards of the top ring off all 8 pistons, using my ultrafine flat-blade srewdriver, my cylinder hone to peel what remaining rust was visible on those cylinders with pistons near the bottom of their strokes, more 0W-20 synthetic oil (which I bought off a neighborhood crackhead) and a modest 3' pipe to add more torque, I managed first a barely visible motion, then a definite 1/8", then, after removing the newly visible rust, I could rotate the crankshaft about 2/3 through, reversed, scrubbed rust from newly exposed surfaces, more oil, more torque, then, VOILA! A COMPLETE ROTATION!!!!!

I slopped in more 0W-20 synthetic to all the pistons, cranked it a few times, then again after wiping rust colored light oil out, fresh oil, rotate until it got easy!

Now I can unbolt each piston, clean and label it, then remove the crank, examine the bores for tapering and other wear or damage, then decide whether to have another 0.010" cut from this block, or to merely clean up using the stone deglazer, and decide what I want for a motor....

 

[413]

Great news, use a Flex hone and run it.

If you take it to a machine shop they will say it needs .030 bore, pistons, etc etc etc.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Great news, use a Flex hone and run it.

If you take it to a machine shop they will say it needs .030 bore, pistons, etc etc etc.

I know. I think these pistons will be just fine for re-use. Why? There is NO discernible RIDGE on any of the cylinders!!! I'll stick with cast iron rings, for endurance. IFF I find some hidden pits or such in the bores, I'll have my machinist cut another .010", bringing them out to 0.040", but I don't expect to do so. I WILL replace the lifters, and have a pair of 452s dressed up well for this block, but overall, I plan an Economy Build for this one. IFF ALL goes well after breaking it in, I'll plan a stroked build for the 400*. I can see some merit in a longer moment arm for torque when moving 2.1 tons of Detroit sheetmetal around town.....

* This 1977 400 sucked water when the redneck driver drove his RV into some oversized puddle. I popped the heads off, oiled the bores, and EASILY cranked it around a bit, then packed it up into the storage locker. I saw nothing amiss up top, but, I figure such a block deserves a good build, so, like this 383, I'll dissassemble, check, clean, then see how I want to build.

 

[Gerald Morris]

04-30-25, 1905: DAMN THAT FUEL PUMP ROD IS JAMMED BAD!! So are the 1/2" NPT oil galley plugs, excepting the one on front for the lifters. I have extractors, and if worse comes to worst, can get a damned step bit and cut enough of the things away thus. VERY aggravating! I probably will have to sacrifice the #1 cam bearing also, to get that damned fuel pump rod out. That's a SERIOUS show stopper actually, as oil can't flow with a rusted, warped rod blocking the pressurized path from the pump!

MAYBE, I can heat the block moderately with propane and get the damned thing to budge out.... PBlast worthless here.

 

[413]

Time and penetrant is your friend. Get a Allen socket 1/2" drive and a breaker bar to get those oil plugs loose.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Time and penetrant is your friend. Get a Allen socket 1/2" drive and a breaker bar to get those oil plugs loose.

Yes, time and a GOOD penetrant. I already busted a cheap chinese 3/8" drive 5/16" Allen socket, and have mauled the hexagonal female holes in the plugs. Might braze 5/16" Allen key stock into the remaining plugs, use a GOOD 5/16" 1/2" drive deep socket on them, with breaker bar and cheater pipe, and see if I can turn them out. I'll have to replace the #1 cam bearing also. the babbit has been nicked from my attempts to punch that damned mushroom down, and I don't want to have ANY cam riding on a nicked bearing surface, even stuff as soft as babbit.

It occurs to me that drilling a SMALL hole parallel to the fuel pump rod will permit more penetrant in, and also permit the cast iron to expand a little more easily, but I fear the long term consequences of such. I'm going to get some diamond Dremel wheels to cut the fuel pump end of that shaft into a rough square, in order to grip and rotate it. If I can move that damned shaft, even as a rotation, that WILL break the static friction, which is all that holds it in place, bad though it is.

 

[413]

Don't use those cheap china tools. Don't even allow them on your property.

Use quality tools the first time, or you destroy the fastener and make it harder on yourself.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Don't use those cheap china tools. Don't even allow them on your property.

Use quality tools the first time, or you destroy the fastener and make it harder on yourself.

Agreed. I never spent a cent on the damned thing, but it DID infiltrate my 3/8" drive socket drawer, likely with a grab bag acquisition. Hard 2 tell if all the mangling came from my crapmetal Allen-wu socket, or, if the prior owner had contributed also. You're absolutely right about exorcising sino-potmetal from one's property/dwelling all the same. I'll also more rigorously instruct my crack-head "procurement team" about this. They actually learn and generally follow instructions, God bless their souls, but the younger initiates always require a few birchings to focus their minds properly.

 

[cudamark]

Your 383 is from a '69 model and not a magnum/commando. When you do get it apart and are contemplating a rebuild, have it sonic tested first before anything else. The 383's that year (and others) were prone to core shifts when they were cast. I've seen many 383 blocks bored .030 that could not stay cool enough to run, regardless of cooling system. The coolant would boil in the block where the casting was just too thin. Sleeving the cylinders was the only way to cure it. Not being an original engine to your vehicle, and not even being an HP block, it usually isn't worth the expense.....just get another block. If it passes the sonic test, sure, have at it. I doubt it will clean to it's current .030 bore though, considering the corrosion.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Your 383 is from a '69 model and not a magnum/commando.

Yes, alas, I looked into the nomenclature a bit and figured this out. Thx all the same for re-iterating the lesson. Oh well!

When you do get it apart and are contemplating a rebuild, have it sonic tested first before anything else.

Am planning to do so! Like Ike and Mike....

The 383's that year (and others) were prone to core shifts when they were cast. I've seen many 383 blocks bored .030 that could not stay cool enough to run, regardless of cooling system.

Hmmm, I wonder if its this, or the jammed fuel pump rod which caused the previous owner to give up on it. Will have to do the sonic scan. I buggered the #1 cam bearing now too, so maybe vat and flux also. I HAVE cam bearings here, already bought, sooooo....

The coolant would boil in the block where the casting was just too thin.

I was more concerned about THIS wrt my 400 block, despite the superior bottom crank support webbing.

Sleeving the cylinders was the only way to cure it.

Well, if one MUST. Sleeves have improved since the 1970s, if one gets good (Euro-American) ones. Definitely will have to have a diagnostic look, but that's in the Plan anyway.

Not being an original engine to your vehicle, and not even being an HP block, it usually isn't worth the expense.....just get another block.

I have 2 already, aside from what's in Gertrude. Actually, the '68 383 boiled over repeatedly, despite my efforts at the time. That ordeal and its remembered agony drives me to get another engine READY now. I might peel down the 400 next, though I'm damned curious regarding WTF is WRONG w the '68 engine!

If it passes the sonic test, sure, have at it. I doubt it will clean to it's current .030 bore though, considering the corrosion.

IDK. The bores actually look PFG, with only minimal polishing! I'll get both finer and coarser stones for my cylinder hone and will pronounce upon this issue after some rigourous cleansing. If I have to cut another 0.010" I will have to buy damned pistons though. If they clean up w just a little slop, I might tolerate that. We'll see.

OK, NOW for a description of "How Gerald Finally Drove the Mushroomed Fuel Pump Rod Out of the Block...." Stay Tuned!

 

[Gerald Morris]

As Promised:

Having scoured the Web for the past few days, looking for Somebody Wiser Than Myself on this subject, even beseeching a Certain Youtube Celebrity for advice to no avail, I went to my labor around 1700 this evening with little hope for removing the BADLY jammed, mushroomed fuel pump pushrod from this block. I had tried penetrant oils, long punches, and then used my Dremel 200 to cut away the "mushroom cap" in the cam space, then cut some divots into the sides of the shaft in vain hope that my Vice-grips would gain a purchase on it sufficient to at least TURN the shaft, thus breaking static friction.

No, and again, NO. So....

I cut a little center divot in the middle of the shaft in the cam space, to better retain a punch, or, as it turned out, a flat topped 1/4-20 carriage bolt. One can still see the divot in the pic below:

And a side-view:

LO! AND BEHOLD!!! The Big C-clamp drove that little flat topped 1/4-20 x 1/2" carriage bolt into the center divot, and as I torqued, and TORQUED the screw in the clamp, watching even that big steel C bend out a little, then

"POW!!"

the damned push-rod FINALLY, EXPLOSIVELY BROKE FREE!!!

Now, ALL CLEAR in the cam space and fuel pump rod region!

It SUCKS having ruined that cam bearing, but I ABHOR ELECTRIC FUEL PUMPS!!! I'll concede that they may have improved in the past 40 years, but I prefer Old Mechanical pumps. It remains to be seen if that Iskendarian 1601 cam eccentric is any good. Will just have to measure it. I might let my machinist have at that chore.

I bought a pair of good, U.S. made TE Tools 5/16" Allen sockets this morning, though, as expected, they didn't avail me for **** with the damned old plugs, which all came pre-buggered. I'll have to drill these out and use extractors. I have pipe taps anyway. I want to clear those galleys out but GOOD! I also found a nice little 7/8" cylinder hone for the lifter bores, which should knock the rust off nicely. Am looking for some little sanding drums to polish the lifter bores too. I don't see any BAD corrosion, pits or gouges warranting reaming to 0.904" + 0.008" = 0.912", which, as far as I have thus seen, is a 100% pure Dee Unobtainium lifter. I know bushings exist, but I don't like the notion unless I MUST.....

Anyway, this is the State of the Old Iron Lump as of 17:52 MST, 05-03-25:

I obtained a couple good bottom taps, 3/8-16 and 7/16-14 to start cleaning out all the bolt holes. Next Major Task: Remove Pistons!

 

[69PHOENIX]

G'Day Fellas,
Just for Future Reference, Many Years Ago, When We Had a Rusty Engine We Used to Fill Each Cylinder with a Mixture of 1/3 Penetrating Oil, 1/3 Kerosene & 1/3 Milk.
Sounds Strange But After a Few Days It Worked.
Also We Would Use a Lump of 4" x 3" x 12" Wood and a 4 Lb Hammer to Gently Tap the Piston Free, This Spreads the Impact
Regards Tony.M

 

[Gerald Morris]

G'Day Fellas,
Just for Future Reference, Many Years Ago, When We Had a Rusty Engine We Used to Fill Each Cylinder with a Mixture of 1/3 Penetrating Oil, 1/3 Kerosene & 1/3 Milk.

The kerosene works as a solvent, the penetrating oil gets past the rings and rust.

Sounds Strange But After a Few Days It Worked.

That's not too weird. The lactic acid in the milk drives ferrous oxide back into solution, which with cleaning can then be removed. Acetic acid serves a similar purpose. As a Rule: weak organic acids can be used safely to remove rust. STRONG, inorganic acids excepting only sulphuric should NEVER be used with metals, especially halide acids such as muratic, in the presence of aluminum. Strong hydroxides likewise must be avoided, again, for their reactivity with aluminum.

I found picking the rusted top rings off expedited this process well too. Use a very thin bladed screwdriver for this.

Also We Would Use a Lump of 4" x 3" x 12" Wood and a 4 Lb Hammer to Gently Tap the Piston Free, This Spreads the Impact

Yes, I have an oak block for such, as well as a big brass pneumatic piston, which works better. Most wood is too elastic actually. A hard plastic dead-fall hammer with brass should do even better.

You're Welcome!

Tune in for the Great Piston Removal this week....

 

[Gerald Morris]

ANOTHER sinister east-asian infiltrator in my tool bin! This one came disguised as a large screw extractor, but proved to be cheap pot-metal in about 10 seconds when I attempted to back one of those oil galley plugs out. SNAP! I searched my tap and die box instead of the drill box this time, found 3 good U.S. steel extractors, though, before I commence, I thought I would search the Web for some vintage PIPE plug extractors, since this is more precisely what needs extraction.I see that Rigid offers some such, and an older firm named Greenfield. I may yet just cut these damned old plugs out using several drill bits in increasing steps. They're soft iron, and I suspect this quality increases their adhesion to the engine block, which is cast of iron only slightly harder. I DON'T WANT TO DAMAGE THE THREADS ON THE BLOCK!!!!! This likely will take some time, unless I find some Silver Bullet for the job...... Oh well, a MACHINIST WOULD TAKE TIME AS WELL, AND BILL ME ACCORDINGLY! To HELL with THAT!

 

[69PHOENIX]

G'Day Again,
Just One Small Extra Note That Might Help Someone Along the Line.
With the Old Dome Type Welsh Plugs We Used to Drill & Tap Either Side of the Opening and Affix a Retaining Strap over the Welsh Plug to Stop it From Being "POPPED"
Not a Lot of Fun When You Blow One Out Under Sudden Acceleration.
Regards Tony.M

 

[Moparx]

a small comment from a 50 working year career as a machinist, still practicing today [many, many years since retiring], please do NOT use normal [cutting] taps to clean female threads !
this most often results in oversize female threads, which then will give false torque readings, as well as a weaker thread as well, due to being oversize.
use "thread chasing taps" instead. these taps "restore" the threads instead of cutting away material, by re-forming the threads already there without removing any material.
they are relatively inexpensive, such as this kit on amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Thread-Repair-Chaser-Tool-Set/dp/B0CBM2968L/?

 

[Gerald Morris]

a small comment from a 50 working year career as a machinist, still practicing today [many, many years since retiring], please do NOT use normal [cutting] taps to clean female threads !
this most often results in oversize female threads, which then will give false torque readings, as well as a weaker thread as well, due to being oversize.
use "thread chasing taps" instead. these taps "restore" the threads instead of cutting away material, by re-forming the threads already there without removing any material.
they are relatively inexpensive, such as this kit on amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Thread-Repair-Chaser-Tool-Set/dp/B0CBM2968L/?

THANK you! Yes, I'll get a set of thread chasing taps B4 proceeding to remove any further iron from this block. I'm fixing to buy a good #6 sized flute extractor to remove those 2 damned oil galley plugs in the rear of the block. I see no evidence the former owner tried gluing them in with any red threadlocker, but the rust has welded them in quite thoroughly. Having seen the amount of detritus in the block, I want to scrub these galleys out well, regardless of whether I later immerse it in harsh bases or acids.