Good ride , then died

Engine, Transmission & Driveline

  1. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Well I was out driving and running some errands. She had some stumbles today that are new. Rounded a corner and she died on me. Started right back up. Adjusted the fuel pressure higher. Stopped for a couple hrs while at an event. She would not restart. Tried jumpers and some starting spray to get her to fire off. On the way home I hit the gas pedal, she stumbled and died. Before this she was running rough. The 440 has some sort of electronic ignition. I’m hoping that since we ran the battery down and it wasn’t fully charged the low battery was causing a miss. I think my starter isn’t spinning over fast enough to get her going. So I think I have a few issues going on but where to start? I have the battery charging now.....
     
  2. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Bubbles in the fuel filter suggest you are either sucking air from a vacuum leak or the fuel is boiling in the line. Might want to start by checking your fuel line between the pump and the tank for a vacuum leak, it only takes a pin hole to starve the engine for fuel. Usually if there is a leak, it will be at one of the rubber hoses as they are prone to cracking with the moonshine blend fuels. Usually if a car quits around a corner either the floats are set too high and the carb spills fuel into the engine or the fuel level in the float bowls is much too low and going around a corner, the fuel slops to one side and starves the engine for fuel.

    Most of the time if an electronic ignition is good enough to run the car, the unit is probably still ok. It is very important to have a good ground connection to the battery, be sure your terminals are clean. If your ignition has a firewall mounted control box, be sure the box also has a good ground. Electronics hate bad connections and static, so be sure everything is clean and tight. As you note, electronic ignition requires full voltage to function, but you appear to have resolved the charging issue. The symptoms you are describing sound like fuel to me. You can also try leaving the fuel fill cap loose in case someone has replaced a vented cap with a non vented unit, this will cause a vacuum in the tank and also starve the engine for fuel.

    Dave
     
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  3. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    I have it sitting on my flat bed trailer as that is how we made it home. We had to have the wife rescue us. I’ll check for leaks underneath. If it is sucking air then there should also be a leak when it’s off, correct?

    All of this started after adding the fuel pressure regulator. I’ll double check all my connections to make sure they are tight. Even with the bubbles the pressure looks good but I guess volume could be missing. Would it be possible to have a leak at the diaphragm pump after adding resistance from the regulator?
     
  4. rkrochen

    rkrochen Active Member

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    Do a fuel pressure test and flow test at the carb. You can have pressure when it is dead headed but no flow.
     
  5. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    I have an in-line pressure gauge at the pressure regulator. I’m at 6 psi while at idle.

    How would I test flow?
     
  6. rkrochen

    rkrochen Active Member

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    Place the line into a container and crank it for a set amount of time to see how much gas comes out say 15secs. There are specs on it which I don’t have readily available but it will give you a good idea on how much gas is actually making it to the carb. Try it and let us know, maybe someone knows the specs and can jump in with them.
     
  7. rkrochen

    rkrochen Active Member

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    Also forgot to mention that it should be a fairly even flow with some pulsing.
     
  8. furious70

    furious70 Active Member

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    Why did you add the pressure regulator? Do you have an electric fuel pump? Or trying to address some other issue?
     
  9. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Added the fuel pressure regulator after finding out my manual pump is pumping over 10psi at idle and crab only needs 6psi at idle. Also trying to combat a hot start issue with the carb boiling. Blocked crossover and added a 1" phenolic spacer. So far no more percolating carb, but still hard to start so was thinking the higher pressure was bleeding over and flooding engine, same as the percolating hot carb was doing.
     
  10. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Charged battery for about 2hrs. Cranked right up but still not running right. Hooked up the vacuum gauge to try try and set the idle as best as I can along with the tach on the timing light. When I rev the engine the vacuum bottoms out and she almost dies. In the video she did. This happened several times. Is the vacuum dropping this much correct? Or do I have a vacuum leak somewhere? If so how do I find it? I did just replace valley pan gasket and carb gaskets. I also replaced the valve cover gaskets if this info helps.
     
  11. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Vacuum at idle is about normal, it will drop as the throttle is cracked open, that is normal also.. From what I can hear when you crack the throttle, it does not sound like you are getting much fuel from the accelerator pump. That suggests something is not right with the linkage for the accelerator pump, or more likely, the carb is not getting enough fuel. My suggestion is that you remove the fuel regulator. 10 psi is a high number, usually found on racing applications, to run with the Eddy carb on a stock application; if necessary, find a stock Carter fuel pump which should run at about 6psi. Run the flow test into a bottle first to be sure that flow is the issue before throwing any more parts at the car.

    Dave
     
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  12. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    When you say crank it, you mean cranking over by the key/starter only? Do not crank it and let it run with the left over fuel in the carb to get flow results?
     
  13. rkrochen

    rkrochen Active Member

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    Don’t run it just crank. Disable the ignition slo it won’t start
     
  14. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Also just to add this stumbling started as the tank was down to less than 1/4 tank. Figured the gauge was a bit off and we may have lower fuel than expected. First time she died was coming up the hill on our drive. About a 30* incline. Got to the gas station and topped off with the 93. She took 14.4 gallons to fill. So gauge should have been close to accurate. Hoping I don't have to drop the tank for some reason. I'll get a flow test done tonight once I get back home.
     
  15. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Senior Member

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    One of my old MOTOR Manuals talks about the "flow test" as the main test, for that time. Into a quart bottle, remote from the car a bit and anchored so it won't fall over. Each pulse should be even and strong. No dribbles.

    When the engine stops, there might be fuel pressure to the carb for a bit, before it bleeds back to the tank. The carb needle and seat should keep any fuel expansion in the line, rather than in the carb. IF they didn't do that, then the carb would run too full all of the time, I suspect.

    Rather than messing with the fuel system, I think I'd swap in a new ECU and check the innards of the distributor for correct settings and such. Fuel and Ignition issues can act the same, sometimes.

    Just some thoughts,
    CBODY67
     
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  16. detmatt

    detmatt Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    You could be drawing outside air into the system without any leaking when off.
     
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  17. Joseph James

    Joseph James Well-Known Member

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    Likely not related to your original issue, but I will share what I ran into with mine.

    1. Rubber line connecting metal lines rotted. Under passenger side near front wheel. The cord was holding it together. No idea how the guy who sold it to me got it cranked.

    2 Pin holes in fuel line. This kept mine from doing more than an idle. I had pin holes at 90 bend above fuel tank. Rubber between tank and fuel line rotted. I replaced with line from Inline someone here recommended. Changing pre bent fuel line isn’t easy. Slow and patient wins the race on that one.

    If you ever had to drop your fuel tank it is not a hard job unless you leave gas in it, which makes it heavy. I recommend having new J bolts on hand. My tank had holes in the top so I had to replace it.

    Save the sending unit! New ones are not so good.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
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  18. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Completed the flow test this morning. I tested through the fuel pressure regulator at 6psi then again through the regulator suppling no restriction as the adjustment was backed all the way off. I then pulled the fuel line off going to the regulator to test without it being in the way. All results were the same 14oz in 15secs

    There are 3600 seconds in an hour. 3600/15sec=240. 240x14oz= 3360oz per hr or 26gph. I have no idea if this is anywhere within range. Any guidance here would be appreciated.

    BUT, on further inspection I find the accelerator pump on the carb is not squirting fuel. So I figure the bowls are not getting fuel and maybe there is a blockage. Pop the top off the carb and there is indeed fuel in the bowls. Then i notice the accelerator pump is missing the seal. I pull the spring and find it at the bottom the the chamber. It is no longer the same firmness it was before I installed this. It is now very soft and pliable. If i didn't know better I would say the fuel has already deteriorated it. Put it back in place and the car seems somewhat better. It now will not die when you blip the trottle. Any thoughts how this happened? Car ran an entire tank of fuel before the issues popped up. So i would assume it was in place when I rebuilt the carb. Well i know it was because you could see the squirters working. So what could cause this?
     
  19. Joseph James

    Joseph James Well-Known Member

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    Accelerator pumps wear out. Rebuild kit will have one included.
     
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  20. kenfyoozed

    kenfyoozed Member FCBO Gold Member

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    It was a new one. Less than a week old