hidden headlight gears....info

Restoration

  1. CanCritter

    CanCritter Senior Member

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    starting to get hidden headlights working and need some info...goin through the motions to see whats working and whats not and if anythings missin....

    A.,,,,any leads on the plastic gear set and red cam for these motors...have correct motor but missing plastic gear and red cam ..

    B. where do l find the relay for hidden headlight set up...on light switch?
     
  2. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    A.) I would contact: stephan.fournier@videotron.ca, (E-Mail) He rebuilds these units and has the parts. Last one I had done was $199.00 + $60 for the gear set. He is in Canada, so you might just want him to rebuild your unit as he does a really nice job.

    B.) The headlight motor relay is located directly above the park brake at the top of the under dash. If you remove the cluster and the tube for the driver side A/C vent, you can just see it, PIA to get at and get out. Replacements are pretty much impossible to find as they are the same unit shared with the Dodge Charger. Last one I saw for sale was $499. There are some threads on this site about adapting a Bosch relay.

    Dave
     
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  3. Big_John

    Big_John Illegitimi non carborundum FCBO Gold Member

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    The relay on my Chrysler was on the far left side of the dash, accessible by reaching up under. The bracket bolted to the bottom of the dash.

    Look on the Dodge Charger forum for a guy named "Topher" that has parts and rebuild services for the hidden headlight motors... That said, those motors are the same on a lot of models, even up into the 80's. Might be worth sourcing another rather than looking for parts.
     
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  4. Big_John

    Big_John Illegitimi non carborundum FCBO Gold Member

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    This is the way to go!
     
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  5. CanCritter

    CanCritter Senior Member

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    caught one of your other threads and PN 3420910 was the replacement gear and cam for the 70...have correct motor but plastic piece and cam are gone.....hopeing to just replace them and cross fingers...have 3 motors...2 missing plastic and cams....3rd in 70 but nada happens when lights are turned on...

    am assumeing this is the headlight relay
    20190528_145413_LI.jpg

    how would you go about testing this relay??...headlights turn on
     
  6. CanCritter

    CanCritter Senior Member

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    just thinkin l gotta make sure that dash ..relay ect is well grounded....
     
  7. Big_John

    Big_John Illegitimi non carborundum FCBO Gold Member

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    The first thing is that ALL the bulbs have to work.

    I'll figure out what to jump to check it tomorrow. I'm a little too tired for it to make sense to me (or anyone else, LOL) tonight.
     
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  8. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    If the unit is installed in the car, there are three leads that should be present at the motor connection. One wire is grounded to the case of the motor. When the headlight switch is in the "on" position, one of the two remaining leads will be hot. When the light switch is turned off, the other lead will be hot to close the headlight doors. Key needs to be on so there is power to the relay and the headlight plugs need need to be installed. The headlight filaments supply the ground for the relay.

    Dave
     
  9. marko

    marko Active Member FCBO Gold Member

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    derek, you do know someone who has 2 70 fury converts with hidden headlights........ why not ask him ?
     
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  10. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    '70 Fury converts were all Fury 3. If these cars had hidden headlights, they were added after market with junk yard parts.

    Dave
     
  11. CanCritter

    CanCritter Senior Member

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    leads/pigtails are there and have them hooked up includeing ground to case...that ground to case carrys on after that and is another connection there that has me confused as case should ground it...thought mayby that lead was a ground for lights...will have to grab pic....would this be another ground to frame ect?
     
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  12. CanCritter

    CanCritter Senior Member

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    Had a upload from phone...ground to case Carey's on with a female connector....no idea what it hooks up to 20200116_131601.jpg

    not even sure this motor is good or even right one with proper cam...its only one l have that has plastic gear lol...guess lm gona have to take cover off to see what cam it is....have proper 3431437 motor but no plastic gear or cam...motor in there now is 3431026...no clue what its for....had crossed fingers and was hopein for dumb luck with it :rolleyes:
     
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  13. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    Try running a test light from the battery + to the ground terminal on the headlight motor, it it lights, you have a ground. Next, unhook the two wire plug from the motor. Hook the test light to the lead from the fire wall, either one, with the key and light switch on, one lead should light the test light (the other will be dead), be sure to ground the clip on the test light to a good ground.. Now turn the light switch off, the other firewall lead should light the test light. If the test light glows using this procedure on both leads, the relay is working.

    Dave
     
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  14. marko

    marko Active Member FCBO Gold Member

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    hi dave,
    the relays used were not junk yard finds and neither were the parts, for the most part they are nos.
    we couldnt come up with a relay so if derek needs a new relay he can ask our buddy what he used.
    that was the point i was making.
    i need to find out if the new relay will work with my 70 300, its headlight door motor has stopped working and motors i know are good wont work when swapped in either.
    i will post info about the relay if i find it works.....
     
  15. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    The other issue could be a bad light switch, that can disable the relay if the switch contacts are bad.

    Dave
     
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  16. CanCritter

    CanCritter Senior Member

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    lights turn on when l hit switch..high beams work and headlight delay works and shuts lights of after a min or so once light switch is turned of...
    with 54k miles on this car am hopeing relays still good....am leaning to motor or wireing in engine bay....will be triple checking that once it warms up some...everything in garage is frozen....yikes,,,need to get my paint outa there....
     
  17. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    You can test the motor by unhooking the two wire plug. Run a lead with alligator clips from the + terminal on the battery to one of the two motor leads. If the headlight doors are closed, one of the leads should activate the motor to open the head light door, the other lead will do nothing. If the motor opens the headlight doors, switch the alligator clip to the other motor lead, the doors should now close. If the doors will not open, try using the knob on the bottom of the motor to open the doors part way to see if the motor will engage. If nothing happens, either the motor or the switch plate in the motor is bad.

    Dave
     
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  18. Big_John

    Big_John Illegitimi non carborundum FCBO Gold Member

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    Post #3 in this thread shows how I wired a Tyco relay in my 300. Easy and less than $10 for a good relay.

    Headlight Relays with Hidden Headlights
     
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  19. Dobalovr

    Dobalovr Being on the Cbody diet SUCKS! FCBO Gold Member

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    Derek call me tomorrow I have a spare relay I believe and likely a motor or parts of one
     
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  20. Fury440

    Fury440 At my age everything's a good idea FCBO Gold Member

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    Lots of reading for you.
    page10.jpg page11.jpg page12.jpg page13.jpg

    How my car was wired. The relay is under the battery tray. Your 71 GT is probably the same.

    1970_Charger_headlight_door_relay_upgrade.jpg

    Note the alignment.

    It's not just an "Urban Legend", at least in the 70 FSM. It specifically says not to run the motor out of the car. They did specifically mention the limit switches.

    I bet if you did like Bob said & just touched momentarily you could get away with it. I just test em' on the car since I have 2 with hiddens. To help simulate a load you could put a square-shanked screwdriver in the drive slot &give it some resistance to be safer.

    Remember to turn the manual knob back to the alignment marks after testing, this puts the motor in the middle of it's range & you lift the doors to the halfway open position to install it. At least for a 70 anyway, I'd think the other years would be similar.

    To clarify that a bit.....look at where the square shaft goes thru the gear housing to each door, There a little pip mark on the outer section that doesn't move & a pip on the center that turns. You just turn the manual knob at the bottom & line the 2 marks up with each other.

    Bolt it up, slide the square drive thru, lift the doors ( you can do 1 at a time ) until the square drive falls into the slot in the doors ( doors should be about the half way open point ) Don't forget the spring steel retainers that slide over the square drive & hold them to the doors. Once both are hooked up, connect the wires , get in & turn the key on...doors should close if everything is working.

    Headlights will come on without the key on but the doors won't open until the key is on.
     
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