1. Mr onetwo

    Mr onetwo Active Member

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    Hey guys, I dug into the fuel system on my '70 Fury 318 and got a surprise. It is supposed to have a Carter BBD #4895s on it. The 4895s is very specific to my car...Federal emissions AT and A/C. Instead I found a Holley 2280 which was a dealer replacement carb sometime in the late '70s or early '80s. It is not in great shape and the car runs really bad because of it I think.What is everyone's opinion of the 2280? I don't find much mention of it and some rebuild stuff is no longer available. Should I try to find a decent BBD to rebuild or go with a Motorcraft 2150, Holley 2300 or something else.Thanks for your help.

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  2. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    The Carter BBD is a much better carb and is seldom as unreliable as the Holley. This Holley carb also appears to have been for '70 California emissions as evidenced by the blocked off vapor port. If so, it is jetted to run leaner than the Federal unit which may contribute to the engine running like crap. FYI, the open passenger side emission port is showing some rust, might want to remove the valve cover for inspection. Rust at that location is sometimes indicative of a coolant leak into the crankcase.

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  3. The Goose

    The Goose Senior Member

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    I’ll give you the little carb off my 69 318 if you want it. I put on a Holley 600 and I’ll never look back. Rule of thumb on those old carbs is if the throttle shaft is shot the carb is junk. Spray some carb cleaner at the base and if the engine races it’s probably got a vacuum leak thru the shaft. If it’s leaking vacuum there junk it it’ll never run right again. Good luck with the project.
     
  4. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Senior Member

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    Have you checked the number on the Holley to see if it's really a CA spec carb? Reason is that many of the replacement carbs replaced the older bowl vent "tube" with a larger tube as you see, which is what the later carbs with the evap emissions canister had on them. Otherwise, that tube should be unblocked so the bowl can vent as it would have with the orig carb (without the tube as such).

    In general, the CA spec carbs were only really leaner in the idle and low speed sections. The main system might have had a jet size or two leaner, but not enough to make it run leaner than "stoich" of 14.7 A/F ratio on the road.

    The comment about the throttle shaft wear is accurate. There's supposed o be a small bit of "slack" between the shaft and the throttle body. Why? There's no friction interface between the shaft and the body, so wear will happen there. What's supposed to be there is (according to Holley rep back in the '80s) is compensated for in the jetting of the carb. What that additional slack does is not only allow more air into the mix (other than through the top of the air horn), BUT it also lets the relationship between the throttle plates and the idle mixture holes and the idle transition slots to become out of whack, which will affect off-idle response somewhat. Which becomes a drivability issue.

    For the Rochester QJet, many carb rebuilders used to sell a bushing kit for the primary throttle shaft. Remove the shaft, drill it out, install a bushings (for the friction interface, not unlike door hinge pin bushiness), then put it all back together. To me, the issue with that could be that where the ending throttle shaft hole might be could be a bit "off" if it's not located accurately.

    For any rebuilt carb, other than the quality of the rebuild kit gaskets and such, the CALIBRATION (jets and metering rods) is something to inquire about. Reason? Many rebuilders don't always match the metering so it stays with the particular carb being rebuilt. Everything becomes separated for cleaning and what is put back into the carb can vary, as a result. Which makes it all a "will fit and work" situation rather than a "what it's supposed to be" situation. If you get a "stock answer" that if they sell it to fit your vehicle, "it's the correct carb for you", looking elsewhere might e an option.

    On the other had, in the real world, many of the specific-application carbs will work where they are not supposed to. Many of the thigs which make them application-specific only are so due to the numbers they put out the tail pipe for the particular emissions tests (at the OEM factory level of things). BUT as a fitment situation, having the correct number of vacuum ports on the throttle body base is important (as pictured) so that they all match what your vehicle needs. As mentioned, the earlier bowl vents were just open to the air, the related later model tubes should be the same unless there is a related carbon canister hose they can attach to.

    The particular Carter BBD is known as the "1.25" model. The LARGER BBD that was on the 383s was the "1.5", with its 1.56" throttle bores rather than the smaller 318 size carb. SO, any of the carbs you mentioned will require an adapter to make them work. Plus a different air cleaner, very possibly.

    Back the BBDs were newer (an the cars were too), they always looked a bit archaic to me, but they didn't have the same air cleaner wing nut over-torque situations as the Strombergs (and later Holley 2210s) did on the 383s. But I always considered a metering-rod carb to possibly be a more accurate way to do things. In later times, the BBDS do seem to have withstood the test of time better than others, except for wear issues.

    At this point in time, as most of the carb cores in existence, which are worthy of a rebuilt/resale, will be the later model carbs. Which means more vacuum taps than you probably need, plus the evap emissions bowl vent tube (as your Holley has). Leave it open rather than capped. Use your best judgment and MAKE SURE of any warranty and product return policies BEFORE you purchase anything of that nature!!! Might also shop on www.rockauto.com for a reference point in price and availability, for good measure. PLUS any local auto supplies In your area. Much better to not have to deal with "freight" issues when you can let somebody local (where you can look them in the eye) deal with that should anything go wrong or need additional assistance).

    Thoughts and observations,
    CBODY657
     
  5. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Senior Member

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    You are sure the carb is the issue? What is happening that resulted in this conclusion? Just curious as sometimes fuel and ignition issues can have the same results. Knowing which is the real culprit can be important.

    CBODY67
     
  6. 70bigblockdodge

    70bigblockdodge Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    Get rid of that Holley. It's not the right carb for your car, it does not work right (per you), it has no/little aftermarket support.