1. Mr onetwo

    Mr onetwo Active Member

    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    275
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Location:
    Belfast,ME
    Hey guys, I dug into the fuel system on my '70 Fury 318 and got a surprise. It is supposed to have a Carter BBD #4895s on it. The 4895s is very specific to my car...Federal emissions AT and A/C. Instead I found a Holley 2280 which was a dealer replacement carb sometime in the late '70s or early '80s. It is not in great shape and the car runs really bad because of it I think.What is everyone's opinion of the 2280? I don't find much mention of it and some rebuild stuff is no longer available. Should I try to find a decent BBD to rebuild or go with a Motorcraft 2150, Holley 2300 or something else.Thanks for your help.

    DSCN2535.JPG

    DSCN2536.JPG

    DSCN2537.JPG
     
  2. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    1286
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    Location:
    Cornelius Or
    The Carter BBD is a much better carb and is seldom as unreliable as the Holley. This Holley carb also appears to have been for '70 California emissions as evidenced by the blocked off vapor port. If so, it is jetted to run leaner than the Federal unit which may contribute to the engine running like crap. FYI, the open passenger side emission port is showing some rust, might want to remove the valve cover for inspection. Rust at that location is sometimes indicative of a coolant leak into the crankcase.

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  3. The Goose

    The Goose Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    Likes Received:
    2005
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Location:
    Santa Clarita ca
    I’ll give you the little carb off my 69 318 if you want it. I put on a Holley 600 and I’ll never look back. Rule of thumb on those old carbs is if the throttle shaft is shot the carb is junk. Spray some carb cleaner at the base and if the engine races it’s probably got a vacuum leak thru the shaft. If it’s leaking vacuum there junk it it’ll never run right again. Good luck with the project.
     
  4. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,943
    Likes Received:
    904
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Have you checked the number on the Holley to see if it's really a CA spec carb? Reason is that many of the replacement carbs replaced the older bowl vent "tube" with a larger tube as you see, which is what the later carbs with the evap emissions canister had on them. Otherwise, that tube should be unblocked so the bowl can vent as it would have with the orig carb (without the tube as such).

    In general, the CA spec carbs were only really leaner in the idle and low speed sections. The main system might have had a jet size or two leaner, but not enough to make it run leaner than "stoich" of 14.7 A/F ratio on the road.

    The comment about the throttle shaft wear is accurate. There's supposed o be a small bit of "slack" between the shaft and the throttle body. Why? There's no friction interface between the shaft and the body, so wear will happen there. What's supposed to be there is (according to Holley rep back in the '80s) is compensated for in the jetting of the carb. What that additional slack does is not only allow more air into the mix (other than through the top of the air horn), BUT it also lets the relationship between the throttle plates and the idle mixture holes and the idle transition slots to become out of whack, which will affect off-idle response somewhat. Which becomes a drivability issue.

    For the Rochester QJet, many carb rebuilders used to sell a bushing kit for the primary throttle shaft. Remove the shaft, drill it out, install a bushings (for the friction interface, not unlike door hinge pin bushiness), then put it all back together. To me, the issue with that could be that where the ending throttle shaft hole might be could be a bit "off" if it's not located accurately.

    For any rebuilt carb, other than the quality of the rebuild kit gaskets and such, the CALIBRATION (jets and metering rods) is something to inquire about. Reason? Many rebuilders don't always match the metering so it stays with the particular carb being rebuilt. Everything becomes separated for cleaning and what is put back into the carb can vary, as a result. Which makes it all a "will fit and work" situation rather than a "what it's supposed to be" situation. If you get a "stock answer" that if they sell it to fit your vehicle, "it's the correct carb for you", looking elsewhere might e an option.

    On the other had, in the real world, many of the specific-application carbs will work where they are not supposed to. Many of the thigs which make them application-specific only are so due to the numbers they put out the tail pipe for the particular emissions tests (at the OEM factory level of things). BUT as a fitment situation, having the correct number of vacuum ports on the throttle body base is important (as pictured) so that they all match what your vehicle needs. As mentioned, the earlier bowl vents were just open to the air, the related later model tubes should be the same unless there is a related carbon canister hose they can attach to.

    The particular Carter BBD is known as the "1.25" model. The LARGER BBD that was on the 383s was the "1.5", with its 1.56" throttle bores rather than the smaller 318 size carb. SO, any of the carbs you mentioned will require an adapter to make them work. Plus a different air cleaner, very possibly.

    Back the BBDs were newer (an the cars were too), they always looked a bit archaic to me, but they didn't have the same air cleaner wing nut over-torque situations as the Strombergs (and later Holley 2210s) did on the 383s. But I always considered a metering-rod carb to possibly be a more accurate way to do things. In later times, the BBDS do seem to have withstood the test of time better than others, except for wear issues.

    At this point in time, as most of the carb cores in existence, which are worthy of a rebuilt/resale, will be the later model carbs. Which means more vacuum taps than you probably need, plus the evap emissions bowl vent tube (as your Holley has). Leave it open rather than capped. Use your best judgment and MAKE SURE of any warranty and product return policies BEFORE you purchase anything of that nature!!! Might also shop on www.rockauto.com for a reference point in price and availability, for good measure. PLUS any local auto supplies In your area. Much better to not have to deal with "freight" issues when you can let somebody local (where you can look them in the eye) deal with that should anything go wrong or need additional assistance).

    Thoughts and observations,
    CBODY657
     
  5. CBODY67

    CBODY67 Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,943
    Likes Received:
    904
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    You are sure the carb is the issue? What is happening that resulted in this conclusion? Just curious as sometimes fuel and ignition issues can have the same results. Knowing which is the real culprit can be important.

    CBODY67
     
  6. 70bigblockdodge

    70bigblockdodge Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

    Messages:
    11,319
    Likes Received:
    4560
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Location:
    Avonmore Pa.
    Get rid of that Holley. It's not the right carb for your car, it does not work right (per you), it has no/little aftermarket support.
     
  7. Mr onetwo

    Mr onetwo Active Member

    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    275
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Location:
    Belfast,ME
    Well, I have run into a very common problem nowadays. I am on my 3rd rebuild kit for the 2bbl carb. 1st one was missing several gaskets in a sealed package and the 2nd was labeled wrong and not for my car.Oh well, maybe 3rd times the charm.Common repair parts quality and availability is a real problem!
     
  8. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    1286
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    Location:
    Cornelius Or
    www.carburator-parts.com, this is Mike's carbs and they usually get it right. The stuff they sell at carcrap or autobone is often off shore sourced to folks who can not read English and put the right parts in the box.

    Dave
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Gerald Morris

    Gerald Morris Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    756
    Likes Received:
    185
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Location:
    Tucson
  10. LocuMob

    LocuMob Fluid Technician with a hat FCBO Gold Member

    Messages:
    10,009
    Likes Received:
    5678
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Location:
    Blue Earth Mn
    Talk to @Dana, he has a carb shop and can help you decide what to do. Rebuild or replace, either way, it's a PM away.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Mr onetwo

    Mr onetwo Active Member

    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    275
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Location:
    Belfast,ME
    I finally got the correct kit from my local CarQuest...they corrected their mistake and sold me the correct Standard kit #346C for the same price. I do have a question for our BBD experts. The inlet check ball for the accelerator pump has a cage over it that is not shown in the FSM or any other literature.How do I remove it to replace the ball and is it even necessary?

    Capture.JPG
     
  12. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    1286
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    Location:
    Cornelius Or
    The check ball is stainless so it should not be corroded. This is probably an after market carb as I do not think the factory carbs had a cage. The lower part of this carb is very dirty. Berryman makes a carb cleaning kit that comes in a one gallon can called "Chem Dip" I would soak this carb over night and clean all the gunk out of it. Once clean, you can use the wand on a can of Brake Kleen to flush out all the carb passages. You should be able to leave the cage in place using this method.

    Dave
     
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
  13. Mr onetwo

    Mr onetwo Active Member

    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    275
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Location:
    Belfast,ME
    Thanks Dave...it has been soaked. The carb was original from Goose's '69 as far as we can tell, but who really knows. I will post up after photos soon.

    DSCN2562.JPG
     
  14. Mr onetwo

    Mr onetwo Active Member

    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    275
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Location:
    Belfast,ME
    After the cleanup.I think it looks pretty good.The accelerator pump was missing some parts so I am waiting on those before final assembly and mounting on the car.

    DSCN2567.JPG

    DSCN2563.JPG

    DSCN2564.JPG

    DSCN2565.JPG

    DSCN2566.JPG
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Mr onetwo

    Mr onetwo Active Member

    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    275
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Location:
    Belfast,ME
    The accelerator pump is very confusing.The SMP and Mike's kits don't supply the clip for setting the stroke, but have the right body gaskets without the air cleaner gasket.The Quadrajet Parts kit has the correct clip, but the wrong body gasket. The air cleaner gasket is not available locally at all and the usual places don't have even a single clue.I ordered the correct suff I needed from Qjet and they didn't kill me on S&H. Walker wanted $16.95 to ship parts that weigh less than a 1/4 oz.!

    vent clip.JPG

    Q4056D-w.jpg

    bbd vent.JPG

    bowl vent clip setting.JPG
     
  16. Mr onetwo

    Mr onetwo Active Member

    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    275
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Location:
    Belfast,ME
    I hope all this helps out someone else who is dealing with these carburetors. Master Tech video on this exact carburetor
     
    • Like Like x 1