I’ve got a sinking feeling...... ELB TQ

[73 T&C]

thosefollowing my NYB thread have been following along with the shake down repairs I’ve been making on my 1978.

I’ve been tenaciously keeping it as stock as possible. And with over 98000 miles, I’m down to a few remaining sniglets.

One is the original TQ which is actually a slightly less lean burning recall replacement.

Since last rebuild (last of three) about three months ago, I’ve been tweaking and micro adjusting it to where it is. But a pattern is developing that is pointing me to a possible sinking bowl float.

Just ordered a rebuild kit and new set of Carter floats that should be here Tuesday.

Carb no on it is 9180s which corresponds with the recall notice. However, no rebuild kit or information source I’ve found lists a float measurement. They all say NIA, no information available. I set it to 29/32 as the next available measurement for a 440AT.

More later.... got to go.

 

[Davea Lux]

thosefollowing my NYB thread have been following along with the shake down repairs I’ve been making on my 1978.

I’ve been tenaciously keeping it as stock as possible. And with over 98000 miles, I’m down to a few remaining singlets.

One is the original TQ which is actually a slightly less lean burning recall replacement.

Since last rebuild (last of three) about three months ago, I’ve been tweaking and much adjusting it the where it is. But a pattern is developing that a s pointing me to a possible sinking bowl float.

Just ordered a rebuild kit and new set of Carter floats that should be here Tuesday.

Carb no on it is 9180s which corr sounds with the recall notice. However, no rebuild kit or information source I’ve found lest a float measurement. They all say NIA, no information available. I set it to 29/32 as the next available measurement for a 440AT.

More later.... got to go.

Most quality kits will have the float adjustment with the included measuring tab.

Dave

 

[78Brougham]

Are you getting ready to start the "Drop kicking the TQ into the lake" thread?

 

[commando1]

 

[73 T&C]

Most quality kits will have the float adjustment with the included measuring tab.

Dave

Dave,

But no kit I’ve found has the measurement for a 9180....

I’m thinking one of several things may be happening:

1. Float set too high and carb is being unsettled by a slight overflow.
2. I’ve got a base idle air port that somehow got dirt in it. Cold idle, with the enrichment on, smooth as silk.
3. Set float has sunk enough to cause #1

Things that lead me to believe it’s one or three... idle smooths out under light braking when the fuel in the bowl moves forward and forces the float valve closed. Idle begins to degrade immediately after stop and becomes unstable in about 30 seconds (with tranny engaged and A/C on full tilt buggy). Put it in neutral and it’s just a little rough. Take the compressor load off and it’s just noticeable.

Crack the throttles and idle stabilizes considerably. But still not smooth as it should or can be. I’ve had that engine smooth enough to put a glass of water on it without making a ripple at idle. Before the main jet wells started leaking.

Cold engine with open choke and fast idle cam engaged, and subsequent throttle held more open, no problem. Extra air volume and throttle position partially negates the base idle port as does the enrichment circuit.

I have run out of possible vacuum leak locations.

Plugs, wires, rotor and cap all good. Ballast resister good, ignition switch good, voltage at coil good, new coil; better but not yet.

Sherlock Holmes said: “after all the possible causes are ruled out then it is the impossible that must be true.

I’m no gee wiz mechanic but this is not my first brush with a tough one.

Hotter summer idle is smoother.

New fan clutch made engine run cooler but not as good. I’m thinking extra fan load here not temp.

What ever it is I’m pretty sure it’s slight.....
And in the carb.

Yet, under power, it’s smooth on the primaries and I’m getting about all she’s got at WOT

So now that I’ve been completely all around the block..... I’m back to my beloved Thermoquad.

I don’t give a whit what Stan says about lakes and dropkicking... besides it will hurt more than my foot.

 

[livininharrow]

it wasn't stan

 

[Davea Lux]

thosefollowing my NYB thread have been following along with the shake down repairs I’ve been making on my 1978.

I’ve been tenaciously keeping it as stock as possible. And with over 98000 miles, I’m down to a few remaining sniglets.

One is the original TQ which is actually a slightly less lean burning recall replacement.

Since last rebuild (last of three) about three months ago, I’ve been tweaking and micro adjusting it to where it is. But a pattern is developing that is pointing me to a possible sinking bowl float.

Just ordered a rebuild kit and new set of Carter floats that should be here Tuesday.

Carb no on it is 9180s which corresponds with the recall notice. However, no rebuild kit or information source I’ve found lists a float measurement. They all say NIA, no information available. I set it to 29/32 as the next available measurement for a 440AT.

More later.... got to go.

Carb book shows that carb with a 13/16" float level. The complete carb manual for carter is available online at www.oldcarmanualproject.com. The listing is in the technical section at the bottom of the page. It takes some digging to get to it.

Dave

 

[73 T&C]

Here you can see what I’m thinking about regarding the float allowing the fuel level to be too high. At a fuel level well below the air horn/top of the phenolic bowls, it will overflow through the primary venturis.

Or it could be a bad needle ..... again.... I’m looking for... The impossible

I am Spartacus.

 

[73 T&C]

Carb book shows that carb with a 13/16" float level. The complete carb manual for carter is available online at www.oldcarmanualproject.com. The listing is in the technical section at the bottom of the page. It takes some digging to get to it.

Dave

I’m having trouble finding it.

 

[Davea Lux]

Type carter carburetors in the site search box for the site, the '65-78 manual will come up.

I can e-mail the link if you PM me

Dave

 

[73 T&C]

Here we go.

Look what I found.... the impossible

That’s not goop... that’s ash from a fire started by a backfire early on as the Spark computer began to fail. I had ****** up the build when the pin slipped out of the step up cam bar and got pinched between the bowl and throttle plate. Seems I cracked the bowl. Though it was not aparant at the time

Both sides of the primaries were equally burned and degraded

Upper air horn not affected.

Turns out the floats were fine if a little low (high in the bowl) actually lighter than the new ones I bought by .3 grams.

If you have Thermoquad.... you can never have too many. I have three cars with with working Thermoquads. Two of them work perfectly and this one is in process. And the hardest to date. It runs so lean it is merciless on getting it set up right. It is also the most complicated with its enrichment cirquit just to get it to temp quickly to light off the lean mix. And it has a needlessly complicated fuel bowl vent system that is electric and vacuum operated. May God forgive them!

I actually had another matching phenolic bowl from another similar ‘78 440. Swapped out the mains and was off to the races. One of the lower mains bowls was leaking and the other looked to have been repaired. So I fixed the obvious leaking one and tested the other with fuel. It did not leak but I still felt funny about it. It’s the passenger side bowl.... we’ll see.

8 hours later.... bench ready.... now comes the fun part. Buffing it up to make it look new or as good as possible without replating all the cad parts

 

[Davea Lux]

Judging by the number of dead TQs in you bin, you must really like them. We had a 48x48x48 bin at the dealership. usually full. What is the white goo over the crack in the plenum?

Dave

 

[commando1]

 

[73 T&C]

Post script.... engine now idles fine in gear and smooth except for a weak/fouled plug on #7.... new plugs going in next

Idle screws are set at 1.75 turns for the drivers side and 1.5 turns for the other.

Engine idles a little high at 875rpm but am slowly backing off the idle setting. Speaking of which... the stop pin and transducer plate was all bent out of whack and now looks and works as it should.

Finally, getting a little bit of a surge just off idle now as I dial it in. The wells in the throttle plate that hold the lower main wells of these later TQ’s are vented (why? -I have no idea except so you can know when the main wells are leaking). This is also a source for a small air leak into an un-sinched primary bore. But it’s only been through one heat cycle and I don’t like to torque the **** out of the screws beyond the stated torque. But they always need to be re-sinched after a few heat cycles.

 

[73 T&C]

Judging by the number of dead TQs in you bin, you must really like them. We had a 48x48x48 bin at the dealership. usually full. What is the white goo over the crack in the plenum?

Dave

No... i don’t really like them but can appreciate them. Very elegant design. They also make a very unique sound and work well if properly rebuilt and dialed in. They are a bit of a pain to set up and most I’ve seen have been ruined through improper repair or rebuilding. The last one I took apart actually crackled as I loosened the overtorqued screws. Needless to say the bowl was toast.

Edelbrock makes a very fine and similar design carb. May get an old one just to take apart.

I really like Weber’s better.

 

[73 T&C]

I know you don’t approve.... but. Enjoy my tenacity.

 

[LeBaron1973]

Well done Javier, I imagine you'd rebuild a Sure-brake abs system if you had a car with one- shouldn't be a reason why the old stuff can't operate correctly considering 40+ years to discover both faults and solutions to correct them.

Wishing you continuing success.

 

[73 T&C]

Judging by the number of dead TQs in you bin, you must really like them. We had a 48x48x48 bin at the dealership. usually full. What is the white goo over the crack in the plenum?

Dave

The white stuff.... is ash

 

[commando1]

I know you don’t approve.... but. Enjoy my tenacity.

Oh, I most certainly do. Jav, I wouldn't want you to change one bit. And I don't disapprove !
I'm enjoying your obsession with this object of pure evil. Seriously, keep at it, if not only for the enjoyment that there's someone more obstinate than me. Lol.
I only wish I could see how you would tinker with The Large Hadron Collider. I bet you would be in ecstacy. ;-)

 

[73 T&C]

Well done Javier, I imagine you'd rebuild a Sure-brake abs system if you had a car with one- shouldn't be a reason why the old stuff can't operate correctly considering 40+ years to discover both faults and solutions to correct them.

Wishing you continuing success.

Thanks!

Interesting you should say that. I had a LINCOLN mark III with a Kelsey Hayes version of a sure brake for the rear wheels. It couldn’t be fixed due to lack of available parts, so I actually had to mothball it. Interesting system. Some things really are impossible but only due to time or lack of parts.

Here she is the day she shipped out.