Just bought an EFI

[70bigblockdodge]

Late to this thread, but EFI definitely has the potential to eliminate driveability problems usually associated with carburetors over a range of operating conditons and fuels and especially temperature variations.

Even my 1989 Dodge Dakota with EFI from the factory is just amazing (still at 180K miles on it). No big fuel economy benefit (does have O2 sensor feedback system plus other sensors) but the driveability is flawless under virtually any operating conditon. Really cold to very hot, no difference. Just crank it up and go - it never even stumbles and idles like no carburetor ever did. And instant throttle response. Port fuel injection can be even more precise, which is why today's new cars are usually perfect in driveability always.

But for me, my old cars came with carburetors and I will leave them original to represent the past. But for others with different purposes, it is and will be interesting to hear how these aftermarket systems perform and hold up. But not having a CARB EO is a dead end here in California at least, as Cantflip has said if your car is newer than 1975 (therefore subject to smog check in this state). But that only affects some formals mostly. Are most of these EFI systems also O2 sensor feedback?

Yes you have to put a O2 sensor in exhaust system, they run basically as a TBI unit but they use higher pressure than a factory style TBI and the throttle body has annular discharge around the throttle bores to help with atomization. I am planning on putting one in my Charger purely so it can be turn key and no fiddling to start.

 

[Turboomni]

Got any pics of the install especially the command center pump unit in the car?

 

[Knebel]

I used the Edelbrock pump... Let me go take a pic....

 

[1978 NYB]

What is your opinion of the Fi-Tech performance?

Fuel mileage?

 

[Knebel]

I really don't know about the fuel mileage... I had hoped to get an improvement but... Well let me put it this way, it is still learning g and I am back to my 10mpg what my Holley got. It does have fuel cutoff on deceleration which I need to fine-tune still. I am really happy with the performance, I go 45mph down the road and just slightly push on the pedal and it instantly responds way better than the carb ever did.It does feel like putting it on, it took the motor out of hibernation.

 

[1978 NYB]

I'm thinking about putting that FI on a 451 stroker motor that I'm going to build for my 78 NYB. I too don't really care about mileage....performance is so much more important.

 

[Turboomni]

Thanks for posting pics Knebel. Nice job. The command center seems to be a different shape than the round one in the factory pics. Which I think (yours) is far better for a good install.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I'm thinking about putting that FI on a 451 stroker motor that I'm going to build for my 78 NYB. I too don't really care about mileage....performance is so much more important.

They go hand in hand.

 

[Knebel]

Thanks for posting pics Knebel. Nice job. The command center seems to be a different shape than the round one in the factory pics. Which I think (yours) is far better for a good install.

thank you.
Yes, its an Edelbrock fuel sump for EFI. I thought that looked a bit more stealth than the FITech unit. Plus the FITech command center was on backorder for a year or so. I will be figuring out some different way for the fuel lines and the fuel filter but for now it works pretty good.

 

[Turboomni]

That was one of my biggest concerns with the FITech command center. It looked bulky and cumbersome to install and I had no idea how big it was to boot. Looks much better than I expected the way you went about it!!

 

[cantflip]

thank you.
Yes, its an Edelbrock fuel sump for EFI. I thought that looked a bit more stealth than the FITech unit. Plus the FITech command center was on backorder for a year or so. I will be figuring out some different way for the fuel lines and the fuel filter but for now it works pretty good.

I'm glad you are happy with it so far.

I know this looks clean and pleasing to the eye... but when you rework it please think about high pressure fuel spraying all over the place and try to minimize the risk of fire. I mean nothing I say as disrespect. Right now a frayed belt could open that hose pretty quickly, and the fuel spray directly towards the alternator and exhaust manifold. In a front collision, you would have a pretty high chance of fire as well.

Some ideas, find a nice place under the car. Try to separate the module from the exhaust, perhaps by placing it on the other side of a rail. Look into some kind of skid shield to protect it from road debris and maybe act as a heat shield as well.

When EFI was still new to many manufacturers there was lots of concern about fires in crashes. Ford used a manually resetable inertia switch to kill the pump in an accident. They have been in use from the early 80's to recent models... so the junkyard has them. The newer ones are an input to a computer and are not suitable to wire directly into the pump circuit, the older ones are bigger wires and could be used to disable the pump quickly in an accident, but your system will still act as an accumulator and have fuel to spray for several seconds after shut off. I can dig through wiring schematics to find older ones that would handle more current, but you could more easily just look at the wire size if you wanted to grab one and a pigtail from the junkyard. You may choose to wire it into the control circuit of whatever relay is running the pump to assure you don't overload it.

Your current plumbing is too much rubber, but I think you know that. Try to run a steel line where the original ran as much as possible... I know it will be a hassle, but the location behind the alternator bracket kept it away from the exhaust manifold and protected it from anything that happens at the front of the engine.

 

[Knebel]

You make a good point. I haven't even thought about it that a belt could tear the hose! Thanks for that! Too much rubber, yes, I know, I have a imaginary "to do" list and on it is, getting rid of that pressure regulator and using metal fuel line to the reservoir. But I also have on my list an aluminium radiator and 3 point belts for the backseat (just finished a 3 point belt install in the front) Then eventually some steel braided line to the EFI. The pump is controlled by the EFI computer and I believe there is some sort of shutoff but I am uncertain how that works. I know the pumpflow is controlled by what's demanded. I am definitely concerned about that. Would it make more sense to run a braided fuel hose from the pump to the EFI..Let's say... along the top of the fender? And maybe shielding it somehow ?

 

[1978 NYB]

I'm glad you are happy with it so far.

I know this looks clean and pleasing to the eye... but when you rework it please think about high pressure fuel spraying all over the place and try to minimize the risk of fire. I mean nothing I say as disrespect. Right now a frayed belt could open that hose pretty quickly, and the fuel spray directly towards the alternator and exhaust manifold. In a front collision, you would have a pretty high chance of fire as well.

Some ideas, find a nice place under the car. Try to separate the module from the exhaust, perhaps by placing it on the other side of a rail. Look into some kind of skid shield to protect it from road debris and maybe act as a heat shield as well.

When EFI was still new to many manufacturers there was lots of concern about fires in crashes. Ford used a manually resetable inertia switch to kill the pump in an accident. They have been in use from the early 80's to recent models... so the junkyard has them. The newer ones are an input to a computer and are not suitable to wire directly into the pump circuit, the older ones are bigger wires and could be used to disable the pump quickly in an accident, but your system will still act as an accumulator and have fuel to spray for several seconds after shut off. I can dig through wiring schematics to find older ones that would handle more current, but you could more easily just look at the wire size if you wanted to grab one and a pigtail from the junkyard. You may choose to wire it into the control circuit of whatever relay is running the pump to assure you don't overload it.

Your current plumbing is too much rubber, but I think you know that. Try to run a steel line where the original ran as much as possible... I know it will be a hassle, but the location behind the alternator bracket kept it away from the exhaust manifold and protected it from anything that happens at the front of the engine.

Dang Jeff.....

I'm never going to open my hood again. LOL!

 

[Turboomni]

I see what you mean Cantflip. Very valid safety points you mention here.
I will be most interested what you come up with Knebel.

 

[Knebel]

How about... I don't crash my car? Nah, just kidding. Those are some good points, I feel like I thought about putting it on the firewall but there was no room... Hmmm

 

[Turboomni]

Is there any automatic fuel shut off on the command unit in case a line was severed? Maybe if it senses 0 fuel line pressure it will shut off the fuel pump?
Or would it just fuel the fire till the ignition is off.

 

[Knebel]

I want to say that I read somewhere that if the ecu senses 0 pressure it shuts off after a few seconds of running. Its the EFI ECU turning it off, not the pump itself. I think the shutoff has to do with engine running or not, if it senses 0 tach, it will shut off the fuel pump, the pump also shuts off when you turn the key on but don't start the engine for a while.

 

[1978 NYB]

Other than fuel line routing.....I wouldn't worry at all.

 

[cantflip]

Dang Jeff.....

I'm never going to open my hood again. LOL!

I'm sorry Bob... I'm not really that hard to get along with, but I just can't in good conscience keep my mouth shut about something I see that could hurt someone. Once I have pointed out a safety issue and maybe helped with a solution, I go back to enjoying the car. Not everyone spent a career looking at this stuff from the same perspective... not even in my industry, it may be the only true value I have to offer the masses.

How about... I don't crash my car? Nah, just kidding. Those are some good points, I feel like I thought about putting it on the firewall but there was no room... Hmmm

Yes, please don't... we all would feel that loss (not as much as you). Thanks for understanding I wasn't meaning to nit-pick your car. I have a relevant question, does it matter how you orient the module or how close you are to the injection unit? I wouldn't think so, but I haven't done too much research on these systems.

If you could find a spot closer to the tank, you should be able to minimize the risks, which is all the factory really did in their systems. Finding a junkyard shield or fabricating one shouldn't be hard, I would even donate a chunk of 11 gauge sheet steel if you couldn't find something you liked locally. I like the auto shutoff feature, but if you keep it at the core support, I would at minimum consider the inertia switch idea. The reason is your system will have enough pressure/volume to spray fuel for up to a minute-ish if a small hole is made... adding however many seconds to that IF the engine stalls, and possibly no shut off if the engine stays running. I would mount the switch right by the module so it only trips when there is a shock close enough to damage the fuel system.

I think the bulkhead would be a poor location due to the proximity of the exhaust, aside from not having space if you keep the blower motor.

 

[saylor]

I don't know the dragstrip rules, but someone here told me you can only have 6" or 12" of rubber fuel line showing or you wont pass tech.. that's what I kept in mind when plumbing fuel lines.

+1 for stay away from heat and spark sources, and try to stay inside the frame rails with the fuel line run.

also - somewhere in this forum I have a post about wiring in an oil pressure kill switch to shut the FP off... you lose oil pressure and it kills the fuel flow. you can also get a rollover switch out of a tarus or something, they are mounted in the trunk and wire up inline..

try not to die -

- saylor